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v-rog wrote: 2. An important note- being diagnosed with accute or chronic PTSD does not inhibit or negate one's ability to make legal, ethical, and moral choices (right and wrong).

No, just how you feel about it.

The Annoyed Man wrote:According to Yon's article this morning, the single biggest cause of PTSD in our population is motor vehicle accidents. And when somebody does a murder suicide or something equally vile, we don't ask if he or she had a car accident in 1988. PTSD is a problem, and a terrible thing for those who suffer with it. It needs to be dealt with for those who suffer it and they require our understanding. But that does not mean that its sufferers are not able to make reasoned moral decisions. As Yon says:

Even if someone with severe PTSD kills intentionally, it does not automatically follow that PTSD was the culprit or even partly to blame. Could be anything. Lovers' spat. Revenge. Alcohol. Meth. Prescription drugs. Clash of cultures. Craziness of some sort. Anything. It could be a mixture of many things.

I'm not familiar with Yon, but did a quick read of the article and his bio section. His real life experience is formidable, however in the political battle ground I am afraid that it will be discounted as not being proffered by a trained healthcare expert (unless I missed it in the bio). Further while we don't ask if the perpetrator of an evil act has a mental illness we usually don't have to as any lawyer in court today defending a client will bring that to light as a mitigating factor in the case.
Rather than focus solely on PTSD, I would rather consider the issue of mental illness as a whole and as defined by "medical community" whose expert opinions will be called for and used in framing limits on gun owners. If we can find appropriately "credentialed" healthcare experts who can help even the discussion we will be far better off. We will have to recognize that in arena the court of public opinion is unfairly weighted towards the "medical experts".
Sorry to be on such a soapbox about this issue, but this is the amorphous mass that can and probably will darken our skies.

rwg3 wrote:1. there is also over-diagnosis
<SNIP>

Amen. A pet peeve about our medical system is the pharma driven economy. Doctors get "considerations" for prescribing the drug du jour and everyday, there is something new to ask your doctor for everything from aches and pains to insomnia. More things to diagnose, more things to prescribe.

The reality is many of these drugs, especially sleep aids and antidepressants, are known to generate violent, homicidal and suicidal thoughts and actions. Prozac, Paxil, Effexor, and even Ambien have been common factors in many of the mass shootings and high profile murders we see on the news. We are replete with stories of some one taking Ambien and suddenly murdering his/her family and denying any knowledge of it. They used to lead in with what these purveyors of evil were taking, now if it is mentioned at all, they were "under treatment" or were (GASP) "taking medicines".

Finally, we won't call evil, evil. We blame environment, bullies and come up with elaborate diagnosis to keep from admitting evil exists and those that commit evil acts are to blame. Not the tools, not the parents*, not the jerk in school.

*Parents are sometimes to blame in as far as they did not discipline, teach coping (faith, reason) skills and or instill a moral sense in their progeny. But people are not instinctual creatures, they are rational and moral beings. If I go out and murder someone, I murdered them, not the bully or absentee father.

PSTD is a real conditon that some vets suffer from. But I also think this event is just a way for the anti's to try to take away guns from vets. I find it highly suspicious that everytime the anti's make a claim that someone dies to prove their point. While violence occurs on its own I believe some of these incidents in the recent past to be engineered by the government.

Regardless, Mr. Kyles death is still a tragedy.

Very soon, all dissenters will be labeled crazy for one reason or another and sent away.



PTSD sufferers fear backlash in wake of SEAL murdered



Read more: http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/20962 ... z2K1a5etLG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Much of what has been written here in this very thread and in the media is precisely why many of my Peers and subordinates will never seek help or even speak to a confident, mentor, friend about things that not just bother them, but actually impact their daily life, relationships.

Once labeled,,,it can never be undone.

Perhaps it would help if I told you about my experience with PTSD. (You must promise not to laugh.) Years ago I ordered a record album (I said years ago) that I really, really wanted. Before it arrived, I picked up a copy of Vincent Bugliosi's book on the Manson murders, Helter Skelter. Any of you who have read that book know that it is quite graphic and disturbing. While I was reading the book, the album arrived. I immediately put it in the record player, and, while reading the book, I played the record over and over and over again. By the time I finished the book, I could no longer listen to the record album. Every time I did it brought back vivid images from the book, images that were disturbing and terrifying.

This is what PTSD is like. Sensory stimulation brings back memories of an awful experience that you'd just as soon forget.

I once tried to help a woman who had PTSD. She drove a semi in Iraq, hauling military supplies to the various bases and outposts. They were shot at a lot, but one experience lingered on. Her co-driver was driving, in a Volvo cab, at night, when they were attacked. A round hit her co-driver in the head, covering her in blood and brain matter. When she returned to the States she tried to return to work driving a truck. But her company had her doing night runs in a Volvo cab. The sounds and smells of that cab combined with the darkness of the night and the oncoming headlights brought her right back to that awful experience, and she was really struggling to keep her job. I told her to ask her supervisor for two things; day runs and a Freightliner, Mack or Peterbuilt. Anything but a Volvo. Doing that helped her a lot.

It's the triggers that set you off. Familiar sights, sounds, smells, tastes will cause flashbacks. Depending on how traumatic the experience was, the flashbacks can be mild or very severe, taking you right back into a "rerun" of the event. I don't think there's a cure for severe PTSD. It's something you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. It can be mitigated by avoiding the triggers, but that's sometimes really hard to do. But it's not something that normally would cause someone to become violent unless they also suffer from some sort of dissociative disorder. Just because you're having a flashback doesn't mean you become unaware of your surroundings.

PTSD is a fear-based disorder. It's founded upon an event that put you or someone near you in extreme danger. It often involves seeing horrific, appalling injuries to yourself or others. There isn't a single study that links PTSD to aggressive behavior. cite PTSD can make you hyper-aware of your surroundings, cause you to withdraw from a situation, cause you to avoid interaction with other people or cause you to cry or tremble uncontrollably for a brief period of time until the symptoms subside. If a person is prone to substance abuse (of any kind), then the onset of flashbacks can cause aggressive behavior because of the influence of the substance in removing normal inhibitions to certain behaviors.

baldeagle wrote:Perhaps it would help if I told you about my experience with PTSD. (You must promise not to laugh.) Years ago I ordered a record album (I said years ago) that I really, really wanted. Before it arrived, I picked up a copy of Vincent Bugliosi's book on the Manson murders, Helter Skelter. Any of you who have read that book know that it is quite graphic and disturbing. While I was reading the book, the album arrived. I immediately put it in the record player, and, while reading the book, I played the record over and over and over again. By the time I finished the book, I could no longer listen to the record album. Every time I did it brought back vivid images from the book, images that were disturbing and terrifying.

This is what PTSD is like. Sensory stimulation brings back memories of an awful experience that you'd just as soon forget.

I once tried to help a woman who had PTSD. She drove a semi in Iraq, hauling military supplies to the various bases and outposts. They were shot at a lot, but one experience lingered on. Her co-driver was driving, in a Volvo cab, at night, when they were attacked. A round hit her co-driver in the head, covering her in blood and brain matter. When she returned to the States she tried to return to work driving a truck. But her company had her doing night runs in a Volvo cab. The sounds and smells of that cab combined with the darkness of the night and the oncoming headlights brought her right back to that awful experience, and she was really struggling to keep her job. I told her to ask her supervisor for two things; day runs and a Freightliner, Mack or Peterbuilt. Anything but a Volvo. Doing that helped her a lot.

It's the triggers that set you off. Familiar sights, sounds, smells, tastes will cause flashbacks. Depending on how traumatic the experience was, the flashbacks can be mild or very severe, taking you right back into a "rerun" of the event. I don't think there's a cure for severe PTSD. It's something you'll have to live with for the rest of your life. It can be mitigated by avoiding the triggers, but that's sometimes really hard to do. But it's not something that normally would cause someone to become violent unless they also suffer from some sort of dissociative disorder. Just because you're having a flashback doesn't mean you become unaware of your surroundings.

PTSD is a fear-based disorder. It's founded upon an event that put you or someone near you in extreme danger. It often involves seeing horrific, appalling injuries to yourself or others. There isn't a single study that links PTSD to aggressive behavior. cite PTSD can make you hyper-aware of your surroundings, cause you to withdraw from a situation, cause you to avoid interaction with other people or cause you to cry or tremble uncontrollably for a brief period of time until the symptoms subside. If a person is prone to substance abuse (of any kind), then the onset of flashbacks can cause aggressive behavior because of the influence of the substance in removing normal inhibitions to certain behaviors.

It is very important to make the distinction that PTSD is an anxiety-based disorder. Many who truly suffer from PTSD have fears such as being out in large public places (due to suicide bombers, etc.), sitting with their back to the door, etc. For many with PTSD, it becomes a safety issue. In the sand box, the soldier/contractor/etc. was not safe. You could be shot/blown-up/ ambushed at any time. These types of symptoms don't just turn off when you return to the USA. Their is a school of thought, which I buy into, that says PTSD is a neurological based anxiety disorder. Your brain rewires itself around the traumatic event and the person knowingly or unknowingly reorders his/her life to avoid things which "trigger" the original event(s). Triggers are things such as the smell of burning diesel, the extreme dry heat, gun fire, etc., which take the person back to the original event and many re-live it. For instance, in a period of several weeks, my unit reacted to 3 suicide bombers that hit our town, Tal Afar', in Iraq. I won't go into the gory details but suffice it to say that you will not find me in a large open crowd or at large gatherings. In this instance, I have reordered my life in order to avoid a specific trigger. But even a news story, such as Chris Kyle's assisination, brings up horrible events that were common place in Iraq.

A person whom I did much training under in reference to PTSD said, "PTSD is a normal reaction to an abnormal event." I think that best sums it up, for me.

PTSD is a fear-based disorder
PTSD is much more than that. It's not fear that makes one depressed because "I made it home and my buddies who were standing right beside me didn't." Some of it is a guilt that is very hard to live with or understand. Some think it is their fault the other didn't come home. If they had done more, been a little faster, shot the other person first. It's being unable to cope, and much more. I don't think they have really defined the limits of PTSD yet.