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Death is better than prison.

The colossal headaches of black Friday madness aren't worth the pittance in savings. But if you believe otherwise, it's best to go without a firearm as it would be your least effective self defense option. Even if you could reach a concealed handgun, drawing and then aiming would be next to impossible. Plus the potential to lose it would be huge. Others have already mentioned the liability of what's beyond your target as another gigantic liability. The best plan of action in that madness would be hand-to-hand and pressure point tactics.

Due to foul circumstance I have been forced to participate in the last 6 black fridays, I work in a store. I have come to the conclusion that there is a good reason we are not allowed to carry guns at work, there would be some supremely stupid people shot.

As it is, I have refrained from hitting, or even saying insulting things to, people who do not read the WHOLE ad: "UP TO 40% off SELECT appliances." and they only want to see the 40% off washing machines; the guy who finally admits he works as a used car salesman who keeps wanting me to "Sweeten the deal for me, man." when looking at a refrigerator that is already marked down $1401.00; or the one, who after waiting patiently in line and hearing me talk about delivery dates to at least two other customers, gets upset and abusive because I can't magically come up with "next day delivery" for him.

And one of the cappers, folks whose daughter is shopping for prices online and talking to them on the phone at the same time, and has found this washer and dryer "at Sears" for $479.00 and will we match that price, our price is $599.00. I tell them that I will have to confirm the price, and they tell me that there is no need for me to do that because their daughter has it online right now. When I check Sears, they are selling the same W&D for $0.99 each MORE than we are, and I tell them that under most circumstances I would be glad to match the price with Sears, but I cannot raise our prices. They swear up and down that the Sears price is $479.00 because their daughter has it up online now and besides Lowes has already told them that they would match the price. I very nicely suggested that they might want to go back to Lowes and get that price because we were not going to match it. They left.

After they left, I checked Sears Outlet and there, indeed, was the W&D for $479.00, but that was the carry out price for the "scratched, dented, returned or refurbished, clearance" W&D which also happened to be out of stock (we don't match on out of stock, clearance, refurbished, etc, as I had explained to them early on) and if you added the delivery fee in, and they were expecting delivery, their price was still $0.98 more than our price.

They came back about an hour later, after Lowes wouldn't match the price either, and I just happened to be the only person in the department, so they stood around for a few minutes and then went down to the other end of the store and waited until I left for lunch and then came back and still tried to get the price match one more time (I had clued in the person relieving me, and the manager, and he got a big kick out of it, because I had printed the Sears Outlet page and all he did was show it to them) and then bought at our price.

Due to their fiddling around they moved their delivery date out from the Thursday after Thanksgiving to the following Tuesday. Too Bad.

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On topic, If I were to find myself in the circumstance put forward, having fallen and being trampled, I might consider drawing my gun and firing but attempting to shoot "in the air" as it were. I have seen a firecracker create a hole in a crowd and given the choice between the chance that I could save myself (and possibly others, tramplings rarely just affect one person) I might, in the stress of the moment, decide that firing a shot in the air might be worth the risk.

jimlongley, you have far more patience with stupid people that I ever would have !

I would not be there in the first place. drawing a gun in that situation - never

lfinsr wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:OP.. I believe your initial response was correct....
Since you are not the target of a crime, but rather the unfortunate victim of circumstance, you have no justifiable reason for using your gun. The person trampling you is doing so to avoid being trampled by someone behind them. They are not using force against you specifically.

However, if I was in the same Black Friday chaos and a woman pulled a taser on me, like happened last Friday, I think I would take a different viewpoint. YMMV

Larry

A woman pulled a taser on you?

For sure.. Retail has to be tough.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

lfinsr wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:OP.. I believe your initial response was correct....
Since you are not the target of a crime, but rather the unfortunate victim of circumstance, you have no justifiable reason for using your gun. The person trampling you is doing so to avoid being trampled by someone behind them. They are not using force against you specifically.

However, if I was in the same Black Friday chaos and a woman pulled a taser on me, like happened last Friday, I think I would take a different viewpoint. YMMV

Larry

A woman pulled a taser on you?

IF

I can still remember when Black Friday was just that. Lines would form up 2-3 hours before openings and store people would ask which deal you were after and give out "tickets". We shopped a few of those and i would often end up working the day after and do the deed by leaving early to the station.

Then they began stealing more and more of thanksgiving by moving up the door openings for fewer and fewer deals. NOW they open on Thanksgiving completely stealing the holiday.

In those earlier years I carried, now I just carry myself to the house and hit the online sales. OP, this is one of the most interesting hypotheticals I've read on this forum.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:A woman pulled a taser on you?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. It wasn't me but that happened at a local Walmart last week.

as to the stampeding crowd issue .... I generally carry a 5 hole revolver .... I wouldn't have enough rounds available to shoot the whole stampede

DaveT wrote:jimlongley, you have far more patience with stupid people that I ever would have !

No, I really don't, there are days when it takes superhuman effort to not tell someone they are too stupid to shop at Home Depot, they have to go to Lowe's.

And today a Charro clone was in the store trying to get yesterday's sale prices.

And the . . . nah, not suitable for a family forum.

In the given situation, I don't think you would even be able to draw your weapon.

I doubt it would even occur to you at the time. You would be too busy trying to not get stepped on.

Pawpaw wrote:In the given situation, I don't think you would even be able to draw your weapon.

I doubt it would even occur to you at the time. You would be too busy trying to not get stepped on.

True.

First, I would not put myself in that situation.
Second, if you are just saying to pull your weapon, no one would notice as they are not looking down
Third, as stated above, if you were to or even could fire, it would not (IMHO) be justified and you would spend a very long time behind bars.

As has been said many times on this forum, the best weapon you have is the one between your ears. Think about where you are going, what type of crowd will be there, what are the potential risks, and consequences of these risks. In other words, situation awareness.