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jbarn wrote:

Beiruty wrote:A liberal would say why a Taser was not deployed. I would say there was no time to switch tools.

TASER is OK when faced with a knife (deadly force), IF you have deadly force as a backup. Officer was alone and the TASER was not appropriate.

That would have been a different tactic - wait until backup then double-team him. If I'm the officer's supervisor, I'm wondering why he put himself into that position when he could have waited a couple of minutes and increase the officer's safety factor: one entrance, no way out except the front door (per the lady who called for the popo). Sit tight outside the door and wait for backup.

But, I don't know what their protocols are, so....

But, under the circumstances... the officer done what had to be done.

n5wd wrote:

jbarn wrote:

Beiruty wrote:A liberal would say why a Taser was not deployed. I would say there was no time to switch tools.

TASER is OK when faced with a knife (deadly force), IF you have deadly force as a backup. Officer was alone and the TASER was not appropriate.

That would have been a different tactic - wait until backup then double-team him. If I'm the officer's supervisor, I'm wondering why he put himself into that position when he could have waited a couple of minutes and increase the officer's safety factor: one entrance, no way out except the front door (per the lady who called for the popo). Sit tight outside the door and wait for backup.

But, I don't know what their protocols are, so....

But, under the circumstances... the officer done what had to be done.

She said he was going to cut himself. Officer really had no choice. Many incidents are a catch 22. Guy slits his wrists and the cop waits outside (which people will label as hiding) for backup and the dude dies.........

Although tragic, it was the doing of the suspect.

cb1000rider wrote:I think that these types of cameras should be mandatory for all LEOs that are on duty. This is a great example of how a camera can exonerate a LEO that does the right thing in an unfortunate circumstance...

I agree. It definitely benefits the LEO in this case. It would benefit both LEO's and civilians in other cases.

Clean shoot. Hope he gets paid time with the fam while the dept finishes their end.

TASER not ok here IMO.

I don't know if there is a better place to put a bodycam, but his arms and hands block the view quite a bit when he has to key his mike or uses two-handed grip.

That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

CoffeeNut wrote:That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

But.....was it a necessary shoot? Just askin'.....

Oldgringo wrote:

CoffeeNut wrote:That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

But.....was it a necessary shoot? Just askin'.....

I can say it was a good shoot from my couch commando position but I think the only people who can answer if it was necessary is the person standing opposite the guy with the knife and the person/people tasked with investigating it. I don't have investigative experience and I've never had to pull my gun never mind the trigger on someone so...

What I, as someone without a badge, saw was an unresponsive and armed person advancing on an armed officer that did his best in the seconds he had to diffuse the situation. The officer had his gun drawn and switching to something else may have cost him his life.

Oldgringo wrote:

CoffeeNut wrote:That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

But.....was it a necessary shoot? Just askin'.....

You could always set up the scenario with simunitions and a training knife. That guy could have easily killed the officer from the distance he was.

If I only had a gun, I would do what was needed to stop the threat. It seems though the escalation of force was straight to the top. Maybe it's not captured on video, but did he ask if there were any guns inside? Tueller Drill & all, but it's pretty iffy if he can fire the taser on someone hard charging, but this guy wasn't. It seems like instead of confronting further, he could've retreated after noticing the guy with the knives.

I'm not saying it's bad shoot, I'm saying I never saw an attempt at de-escalation (if you want to call calling out to someone as that step, but um, no). I'm thinking of it as training opportunity.

He was made aware of the knives.
He called for the guy several times. No response.
He approached, gun drawn.
He verified the knives. (Adrenaline dump)
He did not retreat further away.
He commanded the knives be dropped.
He said he would shoot.
Guy begins approaching officer.

At about the time he verified the knives, he was not being rushed or threatened. He had the ability to step away or escalate. It might be akin to target fixation in pilots.

LAYGO wrote: At about the time he verified the knives, he was not being rushed or threatened. He had the ability to step away or escalate. It might be akin to target fixation in pilots.

IIRC correctly the guy was hurting himself with the knife, which would accelerate his response. Once inside, if the guy has knife to himself and not advancing, the officer could take up cover and deploy a LL weapon once a cover officer arrives.

I think as shown, it went down well.

When you're the only guy facing a subject armed with a knife, a LL primary weapon is not ok.

Oldgringo wrote:

CoffeeNut wrote:That was intense! Shows how rapidly things can change. Going from investigating a simple traffic accident to being in a lethal encounter would certainly have gotten my adrenaline through the roof. Definitely a good shoot by this officer in my opinion.

But.....was it a necessary shoot? Just askin'.....

Nope - the guy could've dropped the knife and lived. He chose a different path.

ELB wrote:I don't know if there is a better place to put a bodycam, but his arms and hands block the view quite a bit when he has to key his mike or uses two-handed grip.

Fort Worth is in the process of buying body cameras for all uniformed patrol officers - the ones they're purchasing clip on to either the officer's eyeglasses or sunshades, or onto the officer's shirt epaulettes. The quality of the images, on the dozens they've been using already, has been excellent... IIRC it's 720p high def.

Laygo, the officer DID retreat. Appeared he backpeddaled all the way to the door. Going farther would've put him in danger of tripping/falling over threshold or steps.

A-R wrote:Laygo, the officer DID retreat. Appeared he backpeddaled all the way to the door. Going farther would've put him in danger of tripping/falling over threshold or steps.

...or going down the steps and calling for backup. If the now deceased wanted to hurt himself ITMT, let him...

EDIT:

Idaho towns are not large by any stretch of the imagination. I'm wondering how well the LEO knew the deceased?

Oldgringo wrote:

A-R wrote:Laygo, the officer DID retreat. Appeared he backpeddaled all the way to the door. Going farther would've put him in danger of tripping/falling over threshold or steps.

...or going down the steps and calling for backup. If the now deceased wanted to hurt himself ITMT, let him...

EDIT:

Idaho towns are not large by any stretch of the imagination. I'm wondering how well the LEO knew the deceased?

Man, you sure are making assumptions/allegations, or at least it appears that way to me.

The police do not have the luxury of of watching the replay and then deciding what to do. He was there to effect an arrest. The deceased approached him with a knife after being repeatedly told to stop. The cop waiting too long, IMO. Had the guy charged the cop could have easily been stabbed.

Folks who have never been attacked with a knife often underestimate the quickness a person can cover distance with one, as well as the damage a knife can cause.