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MarshalMatt wrote:You can currently keep your weapon in your vehicle on public university campuses....just can't take them in the building.

Yes, see point #5 in my OP.

As for public schools, isn't that prohibition via school board rules for employees rather than via statute?

TEA wrote:

MarshalMatt wrote:You can currently keep your weapon in your vehicle on public university campuses....just can't take them in the building.

Yes, see point #5 in my OP.

As for public schools, isn't that prohibition via school board rules for employees rather than via statute?

I was referring to another post which did not seem to see your OP...

Gotcha

Oh sorry, YES the prohibition in public school parking lots K-12 is by local school board policy, not statute. It is really a defacto prohibition however, because most school districts prohibit employees from having firearms on ANY school property except for very limited and supervised exceptions. Of course, we have seen some school districts contemplating or even allowing teachers and administrators to legally conceal.

MarshalMatt wrote:Of course, we have seen some school districts contemplating or even allowing teachers and administrators to legally conceal.

Do you have any examples in Texas of public schools that allow teachers and/or administrators to carry? That would be a good precedent to cite in my proposal.

You read of them from time-to-time...I can only recall of two (if memory serves one was in a border town and the other in the northeast part of the state) but it has happened...again, here I am talking K-12. Look, school authorities have wide latitude in creating local policy. I predict it is something we will see more of, not less.

jbarn wrote:

baldeagle wrote: all I have to be is noisy (e.g. put the gun down or I will shoot!), and the shooter will often stop his rampage and kill himself.

Often? Can you cite one instance where an unarmed person yelled at an active shooter who then stopped and killed himself?

First of all, I never said unarmed. You'd have to be idiot or have a death wish to face a mass shooter unarmed (unless you had no other choice.)

There was a shooter in a mall who saw a CHL holder with his gun drawn and immediately went into a hallway and shot himself. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In another case a CHL holder killed the shooter. http://www.rgj.com/article/20080526/NEWS18/80526010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the famous shootings at Virginia Tech and Colorado, the shooters killed themselves as soon as they realized the police were coming. Why would it be any different if they were confronted by an armed and determined CHL holder?

In a Portland, OR case, a CHL holder shot a gunman after he shot other people. http://www.katu.com/news/local/Multiple ... 96101.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a long list of CHL holders stopping mass shootings. http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/ma ... izens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They include the two famous cases at Pearl High School and Appalachian Law School.

You just won't find these things on the alphabet networks or major newspapers, because they ignore them.

TEA wrote:

MarshalMatt wrote:Of course, we have seen some school districts contemplating or even allowing teachers and administrators to legally conceal.

Do you have any examples in Texas of public schools that allow teachers and/or administrators to carry? That would be a good precedent to cite in my proposal.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-school-d ... d=18823381" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Aurora ISD has started a policy to arm teachers.

+ Harrold IDS, Ganado, Louise, and Union Grove ISD and others....

Thanks, guys. I will contact these school districts to get some feedback from them on their experiences with allowing concealed carry on campus.

TEA wrote:Thanks, guys. I will contact these school districts to get some feedback from them on their experiences with allowing concealed carry on campus.

That should be interesting.

baldeagle wrote:

jbarn wrote:

baldeagle wrote: all I have to be is noisy (e.g. put the gun down or I will shoot!), and the shooter will often stop his rampage and kill himself.

Often? Can you cite one instance where an unarmed person yelled at an active shooter who then stopped and killed himself?

First of all, I never said unarmed. You'd have to be idiot or have a death wish to face a mass shooter unarmed (unless you had no other choice.)

There was a shooter in a mall who saw a CHL holder with his gun drawn and immediately went into a hallway and shot himself. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In another case a CHL holder killed the shooter. http://www.rgj.com/article/20080526/NEWS18/80526010" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the famous shootings at Virginia Tech and Colorado, the shooters killed themselves as soon as they realized the police were coming. Why would it be any different if they were confronted by an armed and determined CHL holder?

In a Portland, OR case, a CHL holder shot a gunman after he shot other people. http://www.katu.com/news/local/Multiple ... 96101.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a long list of CHL holders stopping mass shootings. http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/ma ... izens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They include the two famous cases at Pearl High School and Appalachian Law School.

You just won't find these things on the alphabet networks or major newspapers, because they ignore them.

I am well aware of all of those and more. You wrote " IOW, rather than being a "cowboy", all I have to be is noisy (e.g. put the gun down or I will shoot!), and the shooter will often stop his rampage and kill himself.". The suggestion seemed to me to be that a gun was not required. What does it mean, then, to not be a cowboy? Contrast being a cowboy to the actions in the list.

One concern that the board of regents has expressed in the past (and apparently so have other colleges and universities) is increased legal liability. I know that HB 972 (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... navpanes=0) addressed this by amending Chapter 411.208 of the Government Code to expand legal immunity from civil action to institutions of higher education. With out this extension of immunity to specifically include institutions of higher education, would public institutions of higher education still be covered under the broader definition of a "subdivision of the state"?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.208

This could be a deal breaker right here if not.

TEA wrote:One concern that the board of regents has expressed in the past (and apparently so have other colleges and universities) is increased legal liability. I know that HB 972 (http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/ ... navpanes=0) addressed this by amending Chapter 411.208 of the Government Code to expand legal immunity from civil action to institutions of higher education. With out this extension of immunity to specifically include institutions of higher education, would public institutions of higher education still be covered under the broader definition of a "subdivision of the state"?

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.208

This could be a deal breaker right here if not.

Received an e-mail from Alice Tripp. 411.208 does indeed provide legal immunity to the school as a subdivision of the state.

I have spoken with or corresponded with a few of the superintendents for some of the ISDs that have adopted rules to allow for concealed carry by faculty and staff. As I suspected:
1. No complaints from faculty, staff, students or parents that they feel as if their First Amendment rights are being infringed upon by concealed carry on campus.
2. They have experienced no negative incidents as a result of allowing concealed carry. In fact, one superintendent described the practice of concealed carry by faculty and staff to be so trouble free as to be "boring."
3. They all feel as if allowing concealed carry on their campuses makes their schools safer, not more dangerous, and see this measure primarily as a deterrent to would be mass shooters and other predators.

I want to finish drafting my proposal tomorrow or Saturday so that I have plenty of time to send it out to all of the faculty before our association meeting next Friday.

Could a moderator please move this thread to the political sub-forum? I think it would more properly belong there. TIA