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Both 30.05 and 30.06 apply to property. That includes land and buildings. Neither requires signs at every possible entry point to the land or building.

Abraham wrote:But of course, mon ami.

I'm simultaneously annoyed and amused when I read posts where folks on the forum bellicosely exclaim how THEY aren't going to adhere to a 30.06 sign if it isn't absolutely perfect in every way...thus my previous bit of jocularity...

I especially enjoy the ones who state it's the owners way of pacifying the public while secretly giving the nod to CHL holders. If the sign is close it's legit in my book and I will not test it based on others perception that it is illegal. The intent with the posting is clear and I will spend my money where I am wanted not shunned.

To my way of thinking it takes a durn fool to ignore any sign that is posted as a 30.06 compliant or non-compliant. Gun buster, no weapons, no guns etc. I ignore. If they go to the trouble of having a 30.06 sign made up and it's not compliant, they are still telling me they want me to spend my money elsewhere. I know about the exact wording, letter size, English and Spanish, contrasting colors, conspicuous place and so forth. I tell my CHL students to make their own decisions but, I choose to abide by the intention of the owner/lessor of the property and keep my gun and my money out of their business. There are few services, and little merchandise that can't be had either online or at another location. (Medical services is one of the very few exceptions to my go somewhere else rule.)

Remember, "You may beat the rap but, you will take the ride."

The only "valid" 30.06 sign I have ever seen in person was at a city-owned government building.

Even though the law says it is not enforceable, I did not carry.

MoJo wrote:To my way of thinking it takes a durn fool to ignore any sign that is posted as a 30.06 compliant or non-compliant. Gun buster, no weapons, no guns etc. I ignore. If they go to the trouble of having a 30.06 sign made up and it's not compliant, they are still telling me they want me to spend my money elsewhere. I know about the exact wording, letter size, English and Spanish, contrasting colors, conspicuous place and so forth. I tell my CHL students to make their own decisions but, I choose to abide by the intention of the owner/lessor of the property and keep my gun and my money out of their business. There are few services, and little merchandise that can't be had either online or at another location. (Medical services is one of the very few exceptions to my go somewhere else rule.)

Remember, "You may beat the rap but, you will take the ride."

Good approach to it, in my opinion.

Just a little trivia; there are two definitions of the word premise in chapter 46 of the penal code. 46.02 (the law that generally proscribes the carry of handguns unless on your premises or premises under your control, or certain motor vehicles) defines premises as real property and a recreational vehicle being used as a living quarters.

Section 46.03 and 46.035 defines premise as a building or portion of a building.

It is important to note that each dedinition begins with the phrase, "in this section". That means the given definition only applies in that specific section, and not elsewhere in the code unless specifically referenced. If 30.06 actually used the word premise it would also need to either define it or reference either 46.02 or 46.035 in order for any specific definition to apply. Interestingly, the word premise is not used in penal code 30.06. It uses the word property. So 30.06 is not restricted to a building.

Another interesting point; 30.06 does not require the sign be post at any door. It could be posted inside, at the door or outside. It can even be postee at the entrance to parking lots and they are all valid if they meet the other requirements.

How a sign like this one would apply if posted in the entrance of the parking lot of a school.

edgar0400 wrote:How a sign like this one would apply if posted in the entrance of the parking lot of a school.

It wouldn't unless the school were a private school. Although, it might still apply to the public school's employees I'm not sure they would really even need it. They could just put it in the employee handbook and not have to spend the money on a sign anywhere at all.

C-dub wrote:

edgar0400 wrote:How a sign like this one would apply if posted in the entrance of the parking lot of a school.

It wouldn't unless the school were a private school. Although, it might still apply to the public school's employees I'm not sure they would really even need it. They could just put it in the employee handbook and not have to spend the money on a sign anywhere at all.

The 3.06 would not apply to the employees either. However, they do not get the parking lot exemption as it is stated schools are allowed to prohibit employees from having a handgun in their vehicle. It's not illegal, but they can fire them for it where other employers have to allow it.

KeithB, if the school employees did not get the exemption, doesn't that still make it illegal for them if the school does give effective notice according to 30.06 so that they could be prosecuted?

C-dub wrote:KeithB, if the school employees did not get the exemption, doesn't that still make it illegal for them if the school does give effective notice according to 30.06 so that they could be prosecuted?

No. 30.06 is not valid on government property except for meetings for anyone. So, 30.06 does not apply. What applies is the parking lot law that prohibits most employers from setting policy where employees can't have a firearm in their vehicle. The code specifically allows schools and refineries to still prohibit it. While the school can still have the policy to stop their employee from having a firearm, it is not illegal if they do. However, they can be fired for it.

When I see a 30.06 sign that looks legit, I don't search out ways to try and discredit it. If something happened and you got charged with carrying in a restricted place, wouldn't it be up to a judge whether you were justified or not? Location of the sign hidden behind a bush? Sure, that's understandable. Lettering 7/8"? That's a tad overkill. But I understand some things raising a question mark and asking. I have [Pre-paid legal service], so if I have a question about a grey area, I can just ask a lawyer directly.

Keith B wrote: No. 30.06 is not valid on government property except for meetings for anyone.

Is this still true? I'm a little confused, and not being a lawyer I always wonder if I'm reading the statutes correctly. Particularly as they've been amended.

It is stated on page 36 of the CHL-16 handbook (TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS AND SELECTED STATUTES 2011 - 2012)

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

HOWEVER, on page 38 (near the bottom) it states:
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.


Isn't this the same change that permitted licensed carry in churches and amusement parks, etc? It would appear that it's okay now to carry in governmental meetings.

OR — is Keith B saying that it's normally okay to carry in governmental meetings UNLESS they're posted 30.06? Can they do that?

However, I acknowledge (as stated above) that I don't always read everything correctly in the statutes so I'd appreciate clarification. And I apologize if I'm just muddying the waters . . .
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Hey, They're lighting their arrows !! Can they do that ?????

der Teufel wrote: OR — is Keith B saying that it's normally okay to carry in governmental meetings UNLESS they're posted 30.06? Can they do that?

This, I think, but I don't have the best record lately. They can do it if they want.

MoJo wrote:To my way of thinking it takes a durn fool to ignore any sign that is posted as a 30.06 compliant or non-compliant. Gun buster, no weapons, no guns etc. I ignore. If they go to the trouble of having a 30.06 sign made up and it's not compliant, they are still telling me they want me to spend my money elsewhere. I know about the exact wording, letter size, English and Spanish, contrasting colors, conspicuous place and so forth. I tell my CHL students to make their own decisions but, I choose to abide by the intention of the owner/lessor of the property and keep my gun and my money out of their business. There are few services, and little merchandise that can't be had either online or at another location. (Medical services is one of the very few exceptions to my go somewhere else rule.)

Remember, "You may beat the rap but, you will take the ride."

Absolutely!