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Ânthony wrote:

PBR wrote:I doubt thats really the case cause no different separating the aluminum from brass than steel cases from brass and everywhere i know allows steel cases.

It's easy to separate steel cases with a magnet to resell the brass. Sorting aluminum cuts into their profit margin.

the range I go to probably wont let me use it but I don't know they will probably want me to buy their overpriced ammo

In a previous post I mentioned a ban on Blazer ammunition by a gun range in Pasadena. They have several signs notifying of the ban, one on the front door. While I was picking up a firearm I had shipped to the range I asked about the ban and looked at the display of the revolver that was destroyed. There were also two semi-auto pistol barrels displayed along with the ammo and the boxes. It was all Aluminum cased ammo in calibers .38 Spcl, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. The revolver was a Rossi which had the top strap broken and the cylinder was in pieces. The semi barrels were both bulged. The young man didn't know the circumstances of any of the incidents. I only remembered the revolver and I thought it was brass cased ammo.
I'm going to go back when the owner is there to ask what happened. I know the owner is very familiar with firearms; his father, who I knew when I was selling guns, had a business for years dating from the early 60's, so I would think he good cause for banning Blazer.

puma guy wrote:In a previous post I mentioned a ban on Blazer ammunition by a gun range in Pasadena. They have several signs notifying of the ban, one on the front door. While I was picking up a firearm I had shipped to the range I asked about the ban and looked at the display of the revolver that was destroyed. There were also two semi-auto pistol barrels displayed along with the ammo and the boxes. It was all Aluminum cased ammo in calibers .38 Spcl, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. The revolver was a Rossi which had the top strap broken and the cylinder was in pieces. The semi barrels were both bulged. The young man didn't know the circumstances of any of the incidents. I only remembered the revolver and I thought it was brass cased ammo.
I'm going to go back when the owner is there to ask what happened. I know the owner is very familiar with firearms; his father, who I knew when I was selling guns, had a business for years dating from the early 60's, so I would think he good cause for banning Blazer.

thanks for the heads up

let me know about the brass as well because I have a box of that too

puma guy wrote:In a previous post I mentioned a ban on Blazer ammunition by a gun range in Pasadena. They have several signs notifying of the ban, one on the front door. While I was picking up a firearm I had shipped to the range I asked about the ban and looked at the display of the revolver that was destroyed. There were also two semi-auto pistol barrels displayed along with the ammo and the boxes. It was all Aluminum cased ammo in calibers .38 Spcl, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. The revolver was a Rossi which had the top strap broken and the cylinder was in pieces. The semi barrels were both bulged. The young man didn't know the circumstances of any of the incidents. I only remembered the revolver and I thought it was brass cased ammo.
I'm going to go back when the owner is there to ask what happened. I know the owner is very familiar with firearms; his father, who I knew when I was selling guns, had a business for years dating from the early 60's, so I would think he good cause for banning Blazer.

Bulged barrels strongly suggest squib loads that lodged a projectile in the bore and an ignorant shooter who tried to fire another behind it. The revolver damage may also have been caused in the same way - the overpressure would take the easiest way out, which would be the gap between the barrel and the forcing cone, which would produce the damage you cite.

Squibs can happen with any ammunition. I've experienced several over the years with different brands. The only cure is recognition of what happened and removal of the stuck projectile before trying to launch another.

If all 3 of the guns you saw were using Blazer aluminum case rounds at the time, I would suspect a bad lot got past QA at the factory. I've fired lots of them with no issues at all.

I always figured the ranges banned anything but brass because they got their profit on reselling the brass. At least when I was in Houston, the place I shot was pretty cheap so I never worried about it.

Excaliber wrote:

puma guy wrote:In a previous post I mentioned a ban on Blazer ammunition by a gun range in Pasadena. They have several signs notifying of the ban, one on the front door. While I was picking up a firearm I had shipped to the range I asked about the ban and looked at the display of the revolver that was destroyed. There were also two semi-auto pistol barrels displayed along with the ammo and the boxes. It was all Aluminum cased ammo in calibers .38 Spcl, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. The revolver was a Rossi which had the top strap broken and the cylinder was in pieces. The semi barrels were both bulged. The young man didn't know the circumstances of any of the incidents. I only remembered the revolver and I thought it was brass cased ammo.
I'm going to go back when the owner is there to ask what happened. I know the owner is very familiar with firearms; his father, who I knew when I was selling guns, had a business for years dating from the early 60's, so I would think he good cause for banning Blazer.

Bulged barrels strongly suggest squib loads that lodged a projectile in the bore and an ignorant shooter who tried to fire another behind it. The revolver damage may also have been caused in the same way - the overpressure would take the easiest way out, which would be the gap between the barrel and the forcing cone, which would produce the damage you cite.

Squibs can happen with any ammunition. I've experienced several over the years with different brands. The only cure is recognition of what happened and removal of the stuck projectile before trying to launch another.

If all 3 of the guns you saw were using Blazer aluminum case rounds at the time, I would suspect a bad lot got past QA at the factory. I've fired lots of them with no issues at all.

All the rounds were aluminum cases. The cylinder was in pieces, but there was still a round lodged in one chamber of the cylinder. The bulged barrels would lead one to believe (including me) that some obstruction caused it. I'm going to try to get down to the range next week. I'll try to get some pictures if he will allow it. There was a split .38 spcl case, but judging from the complete destruction of the cylinder I don't think it was the culprit round. The only time I've seen damage like this one was a guy who loaded a .357 with the wrong powder and destroyed a Ruger Blackhawk. The chamber split and the top strap was bowed but not broken.

puma guy wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

puma guy wrote:In a previous post I mentioned a ban on Blazer ammunition by a gun range in Pasadena. They have several signs notifying of the ban, one on the front door. While I was picking up a firearm I had shipped to the range I asked about the ban and looked at the display of the revolver that was destroyed. There were also two semi-auto pistol barrels displayed along with the ammo and the boxes. It was all Aluminum cased ammo in calibers .38 Spcl, 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. The revolver was a Rossi which had the top strap broken and the cylinder was in pieces. The semi barrels were both bulged. The young man didn't know the circumstances of any of the incidents. I only remembered the revolver and I thought it was brass cased ammo.
I'm going to go back when the owner is there to ask what happened. I know the owner is very familiar with firearms; his father, who I knew when I was selling guns, had a business for years dating from the early 60's, so I would think he good cause for banning Blazer.

Bulged barrels strongly suggest squib loads that lodged a projectile in the bore and an ignorant shooter who tried to fire another behind it. The revolver damage may also have been caused in the same way - the overpressure would take the easiest way out, which would be the gap between the barrel and the forcing cone, which would produce the damage you cite.

Squibs can happen with any ammunition. I've experienced several over the years with different brands. The only cure is recognition of what happened and removal of the stuck projectile before trying to launch another.

If all 3 of the guns you saw were using Blazer aluminum case rounds at the time, I would suspect a bad lot got past QA at the factory. I've fired lots of them with no issues at all.

All the rounds were aluminum cases. The cylinder was in pieces, but there was still a round lodged in one chamber of the cylinder. The bulged barrels would lead one to believe (including me) that some obstruction caused it. I'm going to try to get down to the range next week. I'll try to get some pictures if he will allow it. There was a split .38 spcl case, but judging from the complete destruction of the cylinder I don't think it was the culprit round. The only time I've seen damage like this one was a guy who loaded a .357 with the wrong powder and destroyed a Ruger Blackhawk. The chamber split and the top strap was bowed but not broken.

Hmmmm.

I did a search on "blazer aluminum case" kaboom and came up with a number of anecdotes. Some involved detonations in guns, and others told of defects like bullets set back into the case, which may well cause major overpressure upon firing. Aluminum cases would likely fail before brass cases would under these circumstances.

I don't currently have any aluminum case Blazer, but have been using Blazer Brass when I can get it with no issues.

Today shot my Springfield 1911 G.I. .45 ACP with some Blazer aluminum ammo....The gun locked back "on empty" after shooting some and I looked at the breech which is always my habit. To my surprise there was an unfired last round still in the chamber that had not been extracted. I pointed the pistol up and the round simply fell out (good old gravity).

Anybody else have these problems with aluminum ammo in their 1911 handguns? I also fired some Winchester brass and they cycled flawlessly.

dlh

Something isn't right here.

Rounds don't leave the magazine and load themselves without slide movement.

If the gun locked back after the previous shot, it could not have moved forward to drive another round into the chamber.

The round couldn't have gotten into the chamber without being driven there by slide movement.

There's an element missing in the account.

One possibility is that the shooter retracted the slide and locked it open and the extractor slipped off the case.

Excaliber wrote:Something isn't right here.

Rounds don't leave the magazine and load themselves without slide movement.

If the gun locked back after the previous shot, it could not have moved forward to drive another round into the chamber.

The round couldn't have gotten into the chamber without being driven there by slide movement.

There's an element missing in the account.

One possibility is that the shooter retracted the slide and locked it open and the extractor slipped off the case.

I've been shooting 1911's since Hector was a pup. The slide only locks back on an empty magazine. Bullets can't load themselves. I can't think of any failure mode that could cause an unfired bullet to remain the the chamber with the slide locked open. I can think of several ways to do that manually though. Certainly not anything whatsoever to do with aluminum cases.

Well,

I shot until the gun would shoot no more as it had locked back. I did not manually pull the slide back. At first I thought I had a simple failure to eject after the round fired. But I examined the round and it had no indentation on the primer. I am puzzled too as to how it happened.

In any event I will not shoot any more Blazer aluminum ammo, at least not in this gun.

dlh

dlh wrote:Well,

I shot until the gun would shoot no more as it had locked back. I did not manually pull the slide back. At first I thought I had a simple failure to eject after the round fired. But I examined the round and it had no indentation on the primer. I am puzzled too as to how it happened.

In any event I will not shoot any more Blazer aluminum ammo, at least not in this gun.

dlh

The gun fired, the slide locked back, nothing ejected, yet there was an unfired round in the chamber?

I wouldn't shoot that gun ever again. It's haunted.

The unfired round was also the last round in the magazine as there were no other rounds in the magazine/feed ramp when the gun locked back. I have never had a failure to strike a primer with this handgun. I don't believe in haunted things though the movie Ouija was mildly entertaining. :)

dlh

Some things come to mind here.

First, you do understand how a 1911 works don't you? There are some excellent animations on the internet that you should study carefully.

The sequence is absolutely inviolate. The next to last round fires. The recoil from that round firing causes the slide to retract. The empty case is pulled from the chamber and tossed aside by the ejector. At the limit of rearward travel the compression of the springs and mechanics causes the slide to move back toward the muzzle of the gun, strip the final round from the magazine, and load it into the chamber.

The mag is now empty, but the slide is CLOSED on a live round in the chamber. The slide remains CLOSED until you pull the trigger, OR YOU OPEN THE SLIDE MANUALLY. When you pull the trigger, the last round fires. The RECOIL from that last round causes the slide to again retract, the ejector pulls the spent case from the gun and tosses it aside. The springs and mechanics cause the slide to stop traveling rearward. The mag is now empty though, and the slide lock rises and catches the slide in the retracted position. This is called a recoil operated firearm.

There is no EMPTY case in the chamber because it was the RECOIL of that BULLET being fired that caused the slide to move rearward and the ejector to pull it out and throw the EMPTY case aside. You can have a failure to eject, but only an EMPTY CASE.

Now follow carefully here. If there is an UNFIRED round in the chamber, where did the RECOIL ENERGY come from to move the slide all the way back until it locked open? The firing of the bullet didn't do it. The only other thing capable of producing ENERGY IS YOU.

Aluminum cased ammo is absolutely incapable of generating recoil energy without the firing pin hitting the primer, setting the powder off, and the bullet leaving the case. Neither is any other kind of ammo on the planet. If your gun developed RECOIL ENERGY without actually firing a bullet, that would be a first in the history of guns.

See why we're having trouble with your story?

I'm going to add one more thing. I may be having trouble understanding what you say happened. If the UNFIRED ROUND was left in the magazine with the slide locked back, you have a failure of the magazine, not the ammunition. That failure is common in 1911 mags. But understand it has nothing to do with ammunition. If the UNFIRED ROUND was in the chamber (the opening to the barrel looking toward the front sight with the slide open) then you have the impossible scenario I described above.