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Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:11 pm
by CoffeeNut
WildBill wrote:
In this instance I think "good shoot" equals "legal shoot". Tactically, opening the door probably wasn't a good idea, but that doesn't negate his right to self defense.
A good shoot to me is a little bit more cut and dry than this one so I don't want to muddy the waters by equating the two. While it'll probably pan out as a " legal shoot", opening the door to someone you've already had a confrontation with is just bad for everyone involved and isn't a "good" decision. There's no duty to retreat but there's also no requirement to advance.
I wasn't there and I wasn't in his shoes but from my viewpoint it was a senseless decision to open the door.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:05 pm
by Oldgringo
CoffeeNut wrote:WildBill wrote:
In this instance I think "good shoot" equals "legal shoot". Tactically, opening the door probably wasn't a good idea, but that doesn't negate his right to self defense.
A good shoot to me is a little bit more cut and dry than this one so I don't want to muddy the waters by equating the two. While it'll probably pan out as a " legal shoot", opening the door to someone you've already had a confrontation with is just bad for everyone involved and isn't a "good" decision. There's no duty to retreat but there's also no requirement to advance.
I wasn't there and I wasn't in his shoes but from my viewpoint it was a senseless decision to open the door.
There will be a lot of $$$$ change hand$ before thi$ I$ re$olved.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:11 am
by Jumping Frog
CoffeeNut wrote:... opening the door to someone you've already had a confrontation with is just bad for everyone involved and isn't a "good" decision. .... from my viewpoint it was a senseless decision to open the door.
I hesitate to make conclusions based upon news accounts, as they are often inaccurate and incomplete.
For all we know, the guy knocking on the door told him he wanted to apologize and shake his hand. Then charged as soon as the door opened. The point is, we really don't know how this played out.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:32 am
by Jim Beaux
The only legitimate reason I would have opened the door was if my wife & children were en route to the room. I wouldnt leave them exposed to someone supposedly this irrational & aggressive.
Though the shooter has the right to stand his ground, how does this reconcile with the fact that he opened the door? Is it a reasonable assumption that the heavy door would have held until the police arrived? Did he contribute to the conflict by doing so? It could be argued that the "victim of aggression" was being detained and held captive in his room against his will by a mad man.
From a legal position - should the shooter have waited for the door to be breached before shooting? As someone previously posted - regardless, this is gonna cost some big bucks.
Opinions?
BTW I bet a dollar against a donut that the hotel has this incident on video.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:45 am
by CainA
I think we all agree that opening the door wasn't the brightest move.
You never know what the shooter was thinking...he could have been so t'd off that he said to himself.."you know what I'm going to open the door just off this guy".
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:00 pm
by CoffeeNut
Jumping Frog wrote:CoffeeNut wrote:... opening the door to someone you've already had a confrontation with is just bad for everyone involved and isn't a "good" decision. .... from my viewpoint it was a senseless decision to open the door.
I hesitate to make conclusions based upon news accounts, as they are often inaccurate and incomplete.
For all we know, the guy knocking on the door told him he wanted to apologize and shake his hand. Then charged as soon as the door opened. The point is, we really don't know how this played out.
You're absolutely correct however I'm allowed to take in information and make assements based on the information I'm receiving. Unless we're on the department, prosecution, defense, grand jury or jury then we'll never know
all of the facts.
Again, opening the door to someone you've already had a confrontation with is just bad for everyone involved and isn't a "good" decision.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:08 pm
by WildBill
I can understand someone opening the door to tell the guy to go away and make sure he does.
It might be hard to sleep thinking there may be some one outside your door waiting to break in.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:28 pm
by Oldgringo
WildBill wrote:I can understand someone opening the door to tell the guy to go away and make sure he does.
It might be hard to sleep thinking there may be some one outside your door waiting to break in.
I haven't been in a hotel/motel in 15 or so years but as I recall, the last few had phones in them and locks on the doors.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:06 pm
by threoh8
Oldgringo wrote:
I haven't been in a hotel/motel in 15 or so years but as I recall, the last few had phones in them and locks on the doors.
Phones, yes. Locks, sort of. Look carefully at the doors and door frames next time you're in a hotel hallway. Even some nice places have seen kick-ins and cosmetic repairs.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:56 pm
by WildBill
threoh8 wrote:Oldgringo wrote:
I haven't been in a hotel/motel in 15 or so years but as I recall, the last few had phones in them and locks on the doors.
Phones, yes. Locks, sort of. Look carefully at the doors and door frames next time you're in a hotel hallway. Even some nice places have seen kick-ins and cosmetic repairs.
Most people who are murdered in their homes have phones and locks on their doors.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:57 pm
by Jim Beaux
Latest:
Man Knocking on Hotel Room Doors 'Looking for Someone to Kill' Shot Dead
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by AWR Hawkins 16 Jul 2014, 6:17 AM PDT post a comment
On July 12, a man knocking on doors at San Antonio's Grand Hyatt while trying to find "someone to kill" came across an armed guest who shot him dead.
According to MySanAntonio.com, 34-year-old Moises Torres "started breaking lights in the hallway" on the sixth floor and then knocked on a guest's door around 1 p.m. When the guest opened the door, Torres said he was "looking for someone to kill."
The guest slammed the door, and Torres knocked on another one. The guest inside the second room was 43-year-old concealed carry license holder John Neal, who retrieved a gun and "waited until he thought Torres had left before opening the door."
But when Neal opened the door, Torres "charged at Neal and another woman." So Neal "drew a pistol and fired one shot at Torres, stopping him in the doorway."
Torres died at the scene.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... -Shot-Dead
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:05 pm
by nightmare
Jim Beaux wrote:Torres "charged at Neal and another woman." So Neal "drew a pistol and fired one shot at Torres, stopping him in the doorway."
John Neal is a woman?
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:23 pm
by Oldgringo
nightmare wrote:Jim Beaux wrote:Torres "charged at Neal and another woman." So Neal "drew a pistol and fired one shot at Torres, stopping him in the doorway."
John Neal is a woman?
...another woman, eh? Ahah, the plot thickens.....stay tuned.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:33 pm
by Excaliber
nightmare wrote:Jim Beaux wrote:Torres "charged at Neal and another woman." So Neal "drew a pistol and fired one shot at Torres, stopping him in the doorway."
John Neal is a woman?
Another way to read this is that there was a woman in the room with John Neal. It's actually hard to read otherwise because someone who is charging toward a doorway would not be charging toward anyone who was not either between him and the doorway or at or inside said doorway, and there is no indication that a woman was between the defender and the deceased.
Re: Man shot dead in Grand Hyatt - San Antonio
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:35 pm
by johncanfield
If
this article is correct, looks like a good shoot and "no charges were filed." Also, the guy had undiagnosed "mental issues."