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patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

CoffeeNut wrote:Doesn't MPA apply here?

If you don't have a CHL but can legally own a firearm then you can carry concealed (loaded and ready to fire) in a vehicle, correct?

Even if the owner of the firearm/car gets out of the vehicle and leaves the gun then the person in the car would, in effect, be in control of the gun and concealing it would be OK.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I believe you are GUILTY on two counts of being correct.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

CoffeeNut wrote:Doesn't MPA apply here?

If you don't have a CHL but can legally own a firearm then you can carry concealed (loaded and ready to fire) in a vehicle, correct?

Even if the owner of the firearm/car gets out of the vehicle and leaves the gun then the person in the car would, in effect, be in control of the gun and concealing it would be OK.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I believe you are GUILTY on two counts of being correct.

G.A. Heath wrote:

patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

If not however, remember that both parties are breaking the law. It is your responsibility to make sure that whoever you are leaving in control of your gun, while literal or legally, is legally allowed to possess it. If not, you could be responsible for leaving a firearm in the possession of a felon... That's no bueno amigos.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

If not however, remember that both parties are breaking the law. It is your responsibility to make sure that whoever you are leaving in control of your gun, while literal or legally, is legally allowed to possess it. If not, you could be responsible for leaving a firearm in the possession of a felon... That's no bueno amigo.

Is that not what I said?

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

If not however, remember that both parties are breaking the law. It is your responsibility to make sure that whoever you are leaving in control of your gun, while literal or legally, is legally allowed to possess it. If not, you could be responsible for leaving a firearm in the possession of a felon... That's no bueno amigo.

I've had people get pretty angry with me for asking if they had anything I needed to know about in the car before I started to drive it. I'll happily take the wheel for a tired friend but I'm going to ask you if you've got stuff I need to worry about (including insurance). It's not that I don't trust these people but it's their car and I'm guilty of leaving all sorts of crap in mine. So many people are unaware that the responsibility gets shifted to the person in control of the vehicle regardless of who owns it.

G.A. Heath wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

If not however, remember that both parties are breaking the law. It is your responsibility to make sure that whoever you are leaving in control of your gun, while literal or legally, is legally allowed to possess it. If not, you could be responsible for leaving a firearm in the possession of a felon... That's no bueno amigo.

Is that not what I said?

I apologize, I forgot to put the "I AGREE" sign. I was just trying to make sure people know better than to believe their new gf when she says she's never been in trouble with the law... (Just Example) Because it's OUR responsibility to know, not just trust them, in the case of leaving our gun in their possession.

CoffeeNut wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

G.A. Heath wrote:

patterson wrote:my thinking was a non chler could carry a firearm in vehicle as long as its not loaded and if the one with chl exits the vehicle the non chler is left in vehicle with a loaded firearm and would that person be breaking the law

Loaded/Unloaded does not matter. If the handgun is concealed as required by law and the driver, who is legal, gets out leaving the passenger(s) in the vehicle with the handgun then the passengers are "in control" of the vehicle so they had better be legal to own/possess.

If not however, remember that both parties are breaking the law. It is your responsibility to make sure that whoever you are leaving in control of your gun, while literal or legally, is legally allowed to possess it. If not, you could be responsible for leaving a firearm in the possession of a felon... That's no bueno amigo.

I've had people get pretty angry with me for asking if they had anything I needed to know about in the car before I started to drive it. I'll happily take the wheel for a tired friend but I'm going to ask you if you've got stuff I need to worry about (including insurance). It's not that I don't trust these people but it's their car and I'm guilty of leaving all sorts of crap in mine. So many people are unaware that the responsibility gets shifted to the person in control of the vehicle regardless of who owns it.

True, regardless of whether or not it's you're car, what's hidden in the trunk will get you in jail.
Same if you drive your buddy, and he's got weed in the trunk...
Same if you drive your car, and your buddy hides weed away from him when he sees the popo, cause if it's not in their actual possession, it's yours. (Depending of course... dangerous road though.)

I actually pat searched a guy I worked with before I gave him a ride... I can't say I believed him too much, I knew he smoked a time or two, and I wasn't about to get in trouble because of his habit. (There was a reason I had to drive him somewhere though, a side job.)

He never rode with me again subsequently... Can't say it was because of me, but good riddance to liability.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:Without a CHL it means the driver. It also means, that if the driver would get out of the vehicle, the person left in the vehicle would now be in control of the vehicle and would have to legally be able to posses the handgun.

It also refers to the owner, regardless of whether they are driving.

Whom ever has possession of the firearm would override that, don't you think? There is a big fat OR in between.

The typical scenario does not involve the non-CHL person carrying on their body, as they would not be able to exit the vehicle without disarming. If the gun is in the vehicle, then either the driver or the vehicle owner can be considered "in control" of the vehicle.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:Without a CHL it means the driver. It also means, that if the driver would get out of the vehicle, the person left in the vehicle would now be in control of the vehicle and would have to legally be able to posses the handgun.

It also refers to the owner, regardless of whether they are driving.

Whom ever has possession of the firearm would override that, don't you think? There is a big fat OR in between.

The typical scenario does not involve the non-CHL person carrying on their body, as they would not be able to exit the vehicle without disarming. If the gun is in the vehicle, then either the driver or the vehicle owner can be considered "in control" of the vehicle.

If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat outside reading a book in the parking lot of walmart while I am shopping, who is in control of the firearm in the center console, under the seat, in the truck, in the glove box, under the hood, in my spare tire. She is. If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat of my truck, and my gun is in it, and I am 200 miles away at work, she is in control of it. Please give me a scenario when she is not in control of the vehicle... only exception is when somebody else is driving and takes immediate control away.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:Without a CHL it means the driver. It also means, that if the driver would get out of the vehicle, the person left in the vehicle would now be in control of the vehicle and would have to legally be able to posses the handgun.

It also refers to the owner, regardless of whether they are driving.

Whom ever has possession of the firearm would override that, don't you think? There is a big fat OR in between.

The typical scenario does not involve the non-CHL person carrying on their body, as they would not be able to exit the vehicle without disarming. If the gun is in the vehicle, then either the driver or the vehicle owner can be considered "in control" of the vehicle.

If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat outside reading a book in the parking lot of walmart while I am shopping, who is in control of the firearm in the center console, under the seat, in the truck, in the glove box, under the hood, in my spare tire. She is. If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat of my truck, and my gun is in it, and I am 200 miles away at work, she is in control of it. Please give me a scenario when she is not in control of the vehicle... only exception is when somebody else is driving and takes immediate control away.

I don't thing anything I said disagrees with that. Also, If she is an owner of the vehicle, then she could be considered in control even if somebody else is driving. They BOTH could be considered in control. Its who's in control of the vehicle, not who's in control of the firearm.

Edit to clarify, the phrase is "owns or is in control" so either or both will qualify.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:Without a CHL it means the driver. It also means, that if the driver would get out of the vehicle, the person left in the vehicle would now be in control of the vehicle and would have to legally be able to posses the handgun.

It also refers to the owner, regardless of whether they are driving.

Whom ever has possession of the firearm would override that, don't you think? There is a big fat OR in between.

The typical scenario does not involve the non-CHL person carrying on their body, as they would not be able to exit the vehicle without disarming. If the gun is in the vehicle, then either the driver or the vehicle owner can be considered "in control" of the vehicle.

If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat outside reading a book in the parking lot of walmart while I am shopping, who is in control of the firearm in the center console, under the seat, in the truck, in the glove box, under the hood, in my spare tire. She is. If my wife is sitting in the passenger seat of my truck, and my gun is in it, and I am 200 miles away at work, she is in control of it. Please give me a scenario when she is not in control of the vehicle... only exception is when somebody else is driving and takes immediate control away.

I don't thing anything I said disagrees with that. Also, If she is an owner of the vehicle, then she could be considered in control even if somebody else is driving. They BOTH could be considered in control. Its who's in control of the vehicle, not who's in control of the firearm.

Edit to clarify, the phrase is "owns or is in control" so either or both will qualify.

I was using wife as an example, and no, she is not an owner of my truck as far as registration is concerned. What I saw your response, was, "What if there is a gun left in the vehicle, and neither the owner of the vehicle, nor the the person who was driving is in it, than whomever is left in the vehicle is no in control of the vehicle. It appeared to me that you were trying to say that ONLY a person driving it, or the RO are in control of it, even if they're not in the vehicle or there."

That's what I shot at. That is what I interpreted from your post. Where you trying to say something else then? It is a complicated matter if it's not physically in their control, according to several variables. If you give me specific scenario, I am quite certain I can tell you who could be considered in control of the the vehicle and it's contents. But as long as everybody in the situation is legally allowed to posses whatever firearm in question, everybody is legal if it's in the vehicle, regardless of which person has legal and/or physical control of the vehicle.

I think we are in agreement

sjfcontrol wrote:I think we are in agreement

Okay, gotcha, there was a failure to communicate then.

CoffeeNut wrote:Doesn't MPA apply here?

If you don't have a CHL but can legally own a firearm then you can carry concealed (loaded and ready to fire) in a vehicle, correct?

Even if the owner of the firearm/car gets out of the vehicle and leaves the gun then the person in the car would, in effect, be in control of the gun and concealing it would be OK.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

That is how I understand it, Yes.