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Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:34 pm
by Keith B
Scott Farkus wrote:I took my daughter ice skating at the downtown Austin Whole Foods this afternoon and had the exact same question about the sign as the OP. I even took a picture and was intending to post it here. Great minds think alike!
fwiw, there was an identical sign next to the one I saw in Spanish, so I guess they have that part covered. I don't know whether the letters were 1" or not, I didn't measure. I assume for the sake of discussion that they are although overall the sign seemed smaller than others I've seen.
My question was with the wording. As someone noted, they seem to be sort of combining a TABC blue (non 51%) sign with a 30.06. I guess there's nothing technically wrong with that except that I thought TABC promulgated their signs, and I didn't think the blue signs went out of their way to say that you can carry concealed if you have a license. So there's that.
I know that there is not a standard, promulgated form of 30.06 other than the 1" and Spanish requirements, but I've never seen one as anything other than a stand-alone. But I'm not aware of anything saying that can't combine it with anything they want as long as the required wording is there in the proper size.
What is strange, to me anyway, is why would you state that you CAN carry concealed under one statute if you have a license, but then in the very next breath say "but you can't do it here because of this other statute". Why not just post the required TABC blue sign and then post a 30.06? This makes no sense. The statutes aren't that hard to understand and some lawyer somewhere had to come up with this goofy hybrid version on his own.
The TABC sign does grant you permission to carry there, it just says it's not against the law. The TABC requires those signs to be posted, so the property owner does not have an option.
The property owner DOES have the option to not post a 30.06, as that is their choice to post it to prevent carry by a CHL. So, they are stating they do not want you carrying there and have followed the requirements in the statutes to legally prevent it.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:53 pm
by ralewis
The Whole Foods in the Domain in Austin has the same sort of sign. Letters seemed to be the right size and the required english and spanish language (even though it was seemingly a combination of the Unlicensed and 30.06 sign).
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:32 am
by Scott Farkus
Keith B wrote:The TABC sign does grant you permission to carry there, it just says it's not against the law. The TABC requires those signs to be posted, so the property owner does not have an option.
The property owner DOES have the option to not post a 30.06, as that is their choice to post it to prevent carry by a CHL. So, they are stating they do not want you carrying there and have followed the requirements in the statutes to legally prevent it.
Yes, I understand all that. Did you look at the picture posted by the OP?
The point is that it appears that Whole Foods has taken the TABC sign language, modified the language in some bizarre fashion to point out that the TABC code allows you to carry if you have a CHL, but then says "but we won't let you carry here" and splices the 30.06 language onto the end. It's a very goofy - and frankly stupid - way to do it as they go out of their way to tell you that they are forbidding what state law allows. It's bizarre to me that they would go to this much trouble when the requirements are otherwise pretty cut and dried.
Can a business modify a TABC sign? I was under the impression that TABC's language was promulgated just like 30.06.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:57 am
by MeMelYup
Has anyone asked TABC if that is a valid sign?
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:50 am
by Abraham
Why all the hand wringing over semantics/signage?
It's simple.
If ever there was an overpriced store for liberals, Wholefoods is it.
Buy elsewhere.
HEB, Krogers and many other grocery stores welcome CHLers and their prices are reasonable.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:04 pm
by cb1000rider
Abraham, where else can I eat a dozen oysters and drink draft beer while shopping for over-priced groceries? The place is unique in some ways.. :-)
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:08 pm
by Keith B
Scott Farkus wrote:Keith B wrote:The TABC sign does grant you permission to carry there, it just says it's not against the law. The TABC requires those signs to be posted, so the property owner does not have an option.
The property owner DOES have the option to not post a 30.06, as that is their choice to post it to prevent carry by a CHL. So, they are stating they do not want you carrying there and have followed the requirements in the statutes to legally prevent it.
Yes, I understand all that. Did you look at the picture posted by the OP?
The point is that it appears that Whole Foods has taken the TABC sign language, modified the language in some bizarre fashion to point out that the TABC code allows you to carry if you have a CHL, but then says "but we won't let you carry here" and splices the 30.06 language onto the end. It's a very goofy - and frankly stupid - way to do it as they go out of their way to tell you that they are forbidding what state law allows. It's bizarre to me that they would go to this much trouble when the requirements are otherwise pretty cut and dried.
Can a business modify a TABC sign? I was under the impression that TABC's language was promulgated just like 30.06.
TABC does not have a specific wording requirement, other than making sure the sign conveys the fact that "It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law." See
https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/sign_requirements.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
My belief is the company looked at what was required to be posted by TABC, and what they wanted to post for 30.06 and just combined the 'weapons' sign into one. I would guess that they had their legal department review the wording and they felt it met the requirements for the TABC signage as well as the 30.06 sign.
Bottom line, I am not a lawyer, but I do review and write legal contract language frequently for a living. I have done enough that I believe the sign meets both letters of the law and I would not carry into the location as I feel I would be in violation of Penal Code 30.06 as long as the Spanish version of the 30.06 is also posted.
As a note, the TABC sign only has to be in one language unless the local TABC office specifies otherwise for a particular location.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:03 pm
by Abraham
cb1000rider,
Please tell you don't wear birkenstock sandals?
Or white boy dreads...
However, oysters and beer do make for a fine combination. If the oysters are fried. Especially if you're getting low on cholesterol...
Actually, I've tried, maybe 6/8 times to find the flavor in raw oysters. I can't. Some claim that if you pile this, that and the other on top, well, hey, that's the way to eat em. I've tried that way too with various condiments. All they do is mask what flavor there is. This convinces me NO ONE really LIKES the almost flavorless flavor so much as they really want to cover it up...
My wife claims to love them and maybe she does, heck, she loves sushi, but she too practically smothers them with this and that before she quickly chews and seems to bolt them down rather than savor them...
Maybe, eating raw oysters is a macho thing.
BTW, vibrio vulnificus kills many folks each year by eating raw oysters, but not cooked ones...but, I digress as I often do.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:01 pm
by sugar land dave
cb1000rider wrote:Abraham, where else can I eat a dozen oysters and drink draft beer while shopping for over-priced groceries? The place is unique in some ways.. :-)
You're going to drink and carry? That is not something that I or most CHL holders would do, at least I hope they would not. Carrying while under the influence of alcohol is not lawful and the amount of alcohol for impairment is undefined last I heard. How about some oysters and a non-alcoholic beverage?
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:20 am
by cb1000rider
Abraham wrote:cb1000rider,
Please tell you don't wear birkenstock sandals?
Or white boy dreads...
However, oysters and beer do make for a fine combination. If the oysters are fried. Especially if you're getting low on cholesterol...
BTW, vibrio vulnificus kills many folks each year by eating raw oysters, but not cooked ones...but, I digress as I often do.
I've got a soul-sucking hybrid. Does that at least contribute to the stereotype?
No to both, but I understand the connection with hippies.. And perhaps affluent urban hippies... (I assume there is such a thing)
I've tried their oysters raw and they're OK - but they actually make a much better cooked oyster there.. I prefer a dozen of those. And they've got 100 beers on tap. It's one of the few places where you can get that type of beer "to go" if you're so inclined via a sealed growler.
And Dave, I don't drink and carry - I'm far too paranoid about it. So the mungingly-worded 30.06 sign doesn't really bother me in this particular situation. I don't buy groceries there, but I do stop by for oysters and beer... I understand the opposition to the signs and support those that shop with their wallets.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:26 pm
by thetexan
I believe that it is not compliant regardless of letter size.
tex
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:45 pm
by jimlongley
The Allen Whole Foods updated their signage in the last couple of weeks, so I'll be sending them a card and not shopping there again. I'll have to find another source of fresh seeds and nuts for my parrots.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:51 pm
by C-dub
thetexan wrote:I believe that it is not compliant regardless of letter size.
tex
Why do you think that?
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:42 pm
by MeMelYup
C-dub wrote:thetexan wrote:I believe that it is not compliant regardless of letter size.
tex
Why do you think that?
I, myself would have stopped reading after the first line where it stated it was about the alcohol and beverage code.
Re: Is this 30.06 sign posted at Wholefoods compliant?
Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 pm
by C-dub
MeMelYup wrote:C-dub wrote:thetexan wrote:I believe that it is not compliant regardless of letter size.
tex
Why do you think that?
I, myself would have stopped reading after the first line where it stated it was about the alcohol and beverage code.
Careful. If you would walk past that sign and were somehow discovered you could loose your CHL. I would hope that my eyes would have been drawn to a few of the familiar elements of the sign and I would have recognized it.