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The Annoyed Man wrote:If it is possible for Apple to cooperate with that investigation without revealing their encryption methods to gov't, then maybe they should cooperate.

WildBill wrote:I haven't read each link thoroughly, but it sounds like the govt wants Apple to create a new operating system with a "back door" rather than breaking into an already encrypted phone.
This is quite different than getting data that is already on a phone. I agree with a couple of posters that every iPhone can already be hacked.

JALLEN wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:The government can already get into the phone.

Think about it for a second.

If the government was to publish "evidence" from the phone that proves terrorist intent without Apple's involvement it would prove publicly what most of us already know, which is they already have a back door. How many people are ignorant of the quantity of information and the many publicized examples of the government's gleaning of information? Does anyone really think that the government can't break into anything? Ask German chancellor Merkle.

The government is playing innocent. Ground yourself in reality.

OTOH, we are bombarded daily with evidence of incompetent bungling, sloth, laziness, buffoonery, and various other reasons to conclude that the bureaucrats wear loafers because they can't tie their own shoes.

Incompetence is always a plausible explanation for government activities and misadventures.

The saving grace is that if they want to badly enough, they command virtually limitless resources to throw at a problem, no matter what it costs or how long it may take. When you are spending someone else's money, there is no point in skimping.

Bitter Clinger wrote:Apple will fight a federal magistrate's order to help the Obama administration break into an encrypted iPhone belonging to one of the shooters in last December's deadly San Bernardino terror attack

The Annoyed Man wrote:Bitter, I have to respectfully disagree.....

I'm on my 3rd iPhone. I appreciate the privacy from the overreaching grasp of an out of control federal gov't which, particularly under the direction of a racist fascist like Obama, thinks it has no limits to its power over our lives. If that means that Apple has exclusive use of my data so that they can try to sell me stuff, well at least I'm being marketed to by a company which cares more about my 4th Amendment rights than does the government which is charged with protecting those rights.

If it is possible for Apple to cooperate with that investigation without revealing their encryption methods to gov't, then maybe they should cooperate. But if cooperation means revealing their encryption methods, thereby unlocking all iPhones to gov't intrusion at will, then the Obama administration can go fly a kite........EVEN if that means that some connection to other terrorists goes undiscovered.

"You'll be safer" as an excuse for giving NSA unprecedented access in all of history to the private data of loyal American citizens has turned out NOT to have prevented jihadist attacks in this country. The creation of the Department of Homeland Security and passage of the "Patriot" Act has made us LESS secure in our persons and affairs, while adding a HUGE bureaucracy with vast powers onto the backs of already overburdened taxpayers - a bureaucracy, which once created, will NEVER disappear from that burden. The last time I boarded a plane, I had to submit to having my privates jostled by a woman in uniform with an attitude.

If Apple can and will protect this lowly consumer's privacy from the intrusions of such a gov't, I applaud and thank them. Just look at what the pursuit of terrorism has done to both our liberties and our presumption of innocence even without criminal charges. We now live in an ages where we have to PROVE to gov't that our continued personal liberty is merited every single day by submitting to daily ongoing invasions of our privacy. Is THAT what generations of Americans fought and died for?

Those terrorists are dead. Good. Some of their associations have already been discovered. Good. I seriously doubt that giving THIS gov't access to the data of ALL Apple users will catch a single terrorist....... But it WILL diminish the Constitution that much more. TRUE Liberty is not without risk. I would rather assume that risk than surrender my Liberty. If others are more concerned about their risk than their liberty, then let them take steps individually to mitigate their risks (by carrying a gun, for instance). But the argument that ALL must surrender their liberty so that SOME can feel safe is bovine waste product, and it has done more to damage liberty in this country than almost any other influence.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Bitter, I have to respectfully disagree.....

I'm on my 3rd iPhone. I appreciate the privacy from the overreaching grasp of an out of control federal gov't which, particularly under the direction of a racist fascist like Obama, thinks it has no limits to its power over our lives. If that means that Apple has exclusive use of my data so that they can try to sell me stuff, well at least I'm being marketed to by a company which cares more about my 4th Amendment rights than does the government which is charged with protecting those rights.

If it is possible for Apple to cooperate with that investigation without revealing their encryption methods to gov't, then maybe they should cooperate. But if cooperation means revealing their encryption methods, thereby unlocking all iPhones to gov't intrusion at will, then the Obama administration can go fly a kite........EVEN if that means that some connection to other terrorists goes undiscovered.

"You'll be safer" as an excuse for giving NSA unprecedented access in all of history to the private data of loyal American citizens has turned out NOT to have prevented jihadist attacks in this country. The creation of the Department of Homeland Security and passage of the "Patriot" Act has made us LESS secure in our persons and affairs, while adding a HUGE bureaucracy with vast powers onto the backs of already overburdened taxpayers - a bureaucracy, which once created, will NEVER disappear from that burden. The last time I boarded a plane, I had to submit to having my privates jostled by a woman in uniform with an attitude.

If Apple can and will protect this lowly consumer's privacy from the intrusions of such a gov't, I applaud and thank them. Just look at what the pursuit of terrorism has done to both our liberties and our presumption of innocence even without criminal charges. We now live in an ages where we have to PROVE to gov't that our continued personal liberty is merited every single day by submitting to daily ongoing invasions of our privacy. Is THAT what generations of Americans fought and died for?

Those terrorists are dead. Good. Some of their associations have already been discovered. Good. I seriously doubt that giving THIS gov't access to the data of ALL Apple users will catch a single terrorist....... But it WILL diminish the Constitution that much more. TRUE Liberty is not without risk. I would rather assume that risk than surrender my Liberty. If others are more concerned about their risk than their liberty, then let them take steps individually to mitigate their risks (by carrying a gun, for instance). But the argument that ALL must surrender their liberty so that SOME can feel safe is bovine waste product, and it has done more to damage liberty in this country than almost any other influence.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Bitter, I have to respectfully disagree.....

I'm on my 3rd iPhone. I appreciate the privacy from the overreaching grasp of an out of control federal gov't which, particularly under the direction of a racist fascist like Obama, thinks it has no limits to its power over our lives. If that means that Apple has exclusive use of my data so that they can try to sell me stuff, well at least I'm being marketed to by a company which cares more about my 4th Amendment rights than does the government which is charged with protecting those rights.

If it is possible for Apple to cooperate with that investigation without revealing their encryption methods to gov't, then maybe they should cooperate. But if cooperation means revealing their encryption methods, thereby unlocking all iPhones to gov't intrusion at will, then the Obama administration can go fly a kite........EVEN if that means that some connection to other terrorists goes undiscovered.

"You'll be safer" as an excuse for giving NSA unprecedented access in all of history to the private data of loyal American citizens has turned out NOT to have prevented jihadist attacks in this country. The creation of the Department of Homeland Security and passage of the "Patriot" Act has made us LESS secure in our persons and affairs, while adding a HUGE bureaucracy with vast powers onto the backs of already overburdened taxpayers - a bureaucracy, which once created, will NEVER disappear from that burden. The last time I boarded a plane, I had to submit to having my privates jostled by a woman in uniform with an attitude.

If Apple can and will protect this lowly consumer's privacy from the intrusions of such a gov't, I applaud and thank them. Just look at what the pursuit of terrorism has done to both our liberties and our presumption of innocence even without criminal charges. We now live in an ages where we have to PROVE to gov't that our continued personal liberty is merited every single day by submitting to daily ongoing invasions of our privacy. Is THAT what generations of Americans fought and died for?

Those terrorists are dead. Good. Some of their associations have already been discovered. Good. I seriously doubt that giving THIS gov't access to the data of ALL Apple users will catch a single terrorist....... But it WILL diminish the Constitution that much more. TRUE Liberty is not without risk. I would rather assume that risk than surrender my Liberty. If others are more concerned about their risk than their liberty, then let them take steps individually to mitigate their risks (by carrying a gun, for instance). But the argument that ALL must surrender their liberty so that SOME can feel safe is bovine waste product, and it has done more to damage liberty in this country than almost any other influence.

AJSully421 wrote:Umm... this is EXACTLY why I will not own anything but Apple products. Not only will they not allow the government to search your stuff without a warrant, they will not allow the government to search your stuff WITH a warrant and a judge's order.

There are those who believe that "We must give up some liberty for security" . I, however, do not.

What do you think that is on that phone that will help fight terrorism? Any call, text, email, tweet, facebook post, Etc that was sent or received by that phone has already been captured by the NSA. The only possible thing that could be on there is a contacts list with phone numbers or email addresses of known ISIS folks... but the case is still there that anything sent or received has already been captured by the NSA, so even that won't really help unless they had such a contact, but never actually sent anything to it. And what are the chances of that?

Bitter Clinger wrote: NSA only captures meta-data. Not content. ...

RicoTX wrote:I don't normally like Apple or their products, but I support them in this instance. If they ever needed into my phone...they just need my finger. Do iPhones come with the secure wipe after 10 attempts by default? I know my android phone has the option...but you have to turn it on. It seems a moderate risk to try 10000 numbers. Most people use a 4 digit code that means something to them... So they should have a decent starting point.