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Man has a basic instinct to be a warrior, if it weren't for this fact he would have been peaceful before guns were invented. Look at history before the 18th century and that is a prime example. The left just cannot get this through their heads, they want to blame the weapon when the real problem is the man. They are too PC to call a spade a spade!!!

You cannot 'tame' basic instinct out of a species.

JALLEN wrote:

Dave2 wrote:
A 2nd civil war would be disastrous; worse than almost anything else I can think of.

Worse than being imprisoned for possession of a AR15 clone, or a standard magazine?

My point wasn't to debate where the line is, but to point out the foolishness (at best) of wanting the line to be crossed.

We've got a long way before 34 states vote to repeal the 2nd if it is even ever proposed by Congress. I'm more worried about it being gutted by judicial fiat. Another reason for an Article 5 Convention of the States. I would say that's a much more natural step before rebellion.

ScottDLS wrote:We've got a long way before 34 states vote to repeal the 2nd if it is even ever proposed by Congress. I'm more worried about it being gutted by judicial fiat. Another reason for an Article 5 Convention of the States. I would say that's a much more natural step before rebellion.

I don't foresee 2A being repealed anytime soon, certainly not in my lifetime.
I do see however how the legislators will begin to desensitize the masses in a much swifter fashion by imposing more gun control & regulations, in small increments. Like boiling a frog.
Come 35 years from today, there will be so little left that to an average blimp out there it won't matter anymore.
Give it another 35 years from that point and I can see 2A repealed.

I hope and pray it never gets to civil war, but unfortunately I think that we have already been thrusted into it. There will be no "winners", only fragments of what we as a Nation used to be.

One thing is for certain, the Left cannot be reasoned with.

mojo84 wrote:

AJSully421 wrote: Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

This is the kind of comment that makes us all look like radical nutjobs. It definitely doesn't advance our cause by changing hearts and minds. It leads to further divisiveness and animosity and that is not what we need.

C-dub wrote:

AJSully421 wrote:We are headed for a civil war. This nation is as divided on economic and social issues now as it was over slavery in 1860.

Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

I'm gonna need more ammo. Have the prices gone sky high yet?

You should also look into some reloading equipment and supplies.

Definitely time to replenish stocks of everything. There is no downside to doing so. If everyth8ing calms down, you might have to take a slight economic loss.

Dave2 wrote:

AJSully421 wrote:We are headed for a civil war. This nation is as divided on economic and social issues now as it was over slavery in 1860.

Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

Really? You can't wait to start killing your countrymen, and for some of your friends and family to die in the fighting? You can't wait for the inevitable food, water, and medicinal shortages which would result from the chaos of a civil war?

A 2nd civil war would be disastrous; worse than almost anything else I can think of.

What I dream of is the type of Liberty that the founders intended. That is something that I would be VERY willing to wade through the horrors and chaos that you have mentioned to obtain.

There were Americans who were willing to endure these horrors to protect the liberty of slaves. I am willing to do the same for the liberty of all Americans.

My real point is how divided this country is, and how wild-eyed nuts the left has become and how I do not see a way to restore our entire nation as a whole because the left, and the big cities that they control, are too far gone to be saved. Therefore, those of us who love Liberty are willing to do whatever it takes to have it, including everything that you mentioned. But, as was said above... It is not yet time. I just wish I knew if a Trump presidency would halt or hasten these problems... Mrs. Clinton will be worse than Obama! She can twist some arms and get things done that Obama could only dream of.

I sincerely fear for the future of this nation, and I especially fear that we are too far gone to be recovered. Then, the only way forward is for those of us with a clue to separate from those of us without. I will welcome that when it happens.

mojo84 wrote:

AJSully421 wrote: Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

This is the kind of comment that makes us all look like radical nutjobs. It definitely doesn't advance our cause by changing hearts and minds. It leads to further divisiveness and animosity and that is not what we need.

Appeasement is not what we need, either. That approach has proven to be a failure.

Personally, I feel that the founders got it right in almost all respects. Especially when they said that when a government becomes destructive of the means for it's existence, then it is the right of the people to overthrow that government and replace it with a new one. Many folks at the time called them "radical nut jobs". But they persevered, and I am glad they did so.

All of us who have fought in wars can agree that it is a terrible thing that should be avoided if at all possible. But avoidance of that terrible thing is not worth giving up our freedoms. That price is just a bit too much, IMHO.

JALLEN wrote:

Dave2 wrote:
A 2nd civil war would be disastrous; worse than almost anything else I can think of.

Worse than being imprisoned for possession of a AR15 clone, or a standard magazine?

Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America

Did you overlook this comment or just accept it as being ok? I agree with the rest of the comment but I cannot support looking forward to it as if it some kind of exciting event. There is a difference between acknowledging something and being prepared than gleefully looking forward to it.

Soccerdad, Appeasement is not what my comment is suggesting. Don't twist what I say for the sake of argument. I am very confident none of them was looking forward to and excited about the "fight". Don't try to claim they were.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

C-dub wrote:

AJSully421 wrote:We are headed for a civil war. This nation is as divided on economic and social issues now as it was over slavery in 1860.

Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

I'm gonna need more ammo. Have the prices gone sky high yet?

You should also look into some reloading equipment and supplies.

Definitely time to replenish stocks of everything. There is no downside to doing so. If everyth8ing calms down, you might have to take a slight economic loss.

I've definitely considered reloading over the past couple of years. I've been saving brass all this time and have quite a bit if and when I do. The only component I've purchased is a sonic cleaner because I knew it would come in handy whether I reloaded or not.

I have begun to question whether or not it is still something I wish to do. I may, but instead of a progressive press might get a single stage to reload for one or two of my rifle cartridges for precision. My dilemma is that I'm getting older, still only 51, but wondering how much I would be able to take advantage of reloading. Since my work schedule changed drastically a year ago I've only been able to get to the range at best a quarter of the times I did in previous years.

mojo84 wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Appeasement is not what we need, either. That approach has proven to be a failure.

Personally, I feel that the founders got it right in almost all respects. Especially when they said that when a government becomes destructive of the means for it's existence, then it is the right of the people to overthrow that government and replace it with a new one. Many folks at the time called them "radical nut jobs". But they persevered, and I am glad they did so.

All of us who have fought in wars can agree that it is a terrible thing that should be avoided if at all possible. But avoidance of that terrible thing is not worth giving up our freedoms. That price is just a bit too much, IMHO.

Soccerdad, Appeasement is not what my comment is suggesting. Don't twist what I say for the sake of argument. I am very confident none of them was looking forward to and excited about the "fight". Don't try to claim they were.

I didn't read anything in Soccerdad1995's comment that suggested the founders were looking forward or excited about fighting. What I read from the founders is exactly the opposite:

In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
A DECLARATION...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

I also see that the founders said it is not only their right, it is their DUTY to throw off such government.

I think the current evils are sufferable. I'm not happy about some of them, but I'll hedge my bets and hope that men smarter than me make the determination that they are no longer sufferable. If that time comes, God help us all. And when it is finished, nothing will be the same.

mojo84 wrote:

JALLEN wrote:

Dave2 wrote:
A 2nd civil war would be disastrous; worse than almost anything else I can think of.

Worse than being imprisoned for possession of a AR15 clone, or a standard magazine?

Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America

Did you overlook this comment or just accept it as being ok? I agree with the rest of the comment but I cannot support looking forward to it as if it some kind of exciting event. There is a difference between acknowledging something and being prepared than gleefully looking forward to it.

Soccerdad, Appeasement is not what my comment is suggesting. Don't twist what I say for the sake of argument. I am very confident none of them was looking forward to and excited about the "fight". Don't try to claim they were.

I think you are reading more into the comment than I did. I took it as an acknowledgement that he would not back down from the challenge, not a desire for the conflict.

The conflict here is caused by people who are trying to take away rights from people. I hate that we have people who want to take away our rights. I wish that people did not have that desire to oppress others in this way. I sincerely wish that we could all live in peace and harmony. I really do. But we simply can't stop all evil people from being evil just by wishing that they were different.

The reality is that there are bad people in this world. One of them gave a campaign speech yesterday where he publicly announced that he wants to take away the rights and freedoms of Americans. And that man currently has the sworn loyalty of the most powerful military in the world. So, as much as we all hate it, our choices may well come down to either some level of appeasement by giving up our rights (which will eventually turn into a complete and total abandonment of all rights) or following the examples of our forefathers and exercising our right to change our system of government. Let's all strive to avoid that eventuality if at all possible, but if it comes to it, then yes I welcome the prospect of a fight precisely because the other alternative is so, so much worse.

mojo84 wrote:

AJSully421 wrote: Bring it on, I cannot wait to fight for the Free States of America... or just have Texas secede and then I can patrol the Red or Sabine rivers.

This is the kind of comment that makes us all look like radical nutjobs. It definitely doesn't advance our cause by changing hearts and minds. It leads to further divisiveness and animosity and that is not what we need.

With respect, anyone for whom my comment would be taken as such would think the same of you.

To a rabid anti-gun liberal, you are clinically insane for even being interested in "instruments of death and destruction". The fact that you are a member of a forum that promotes owning and carrying hidden handguns that, in their view, can only be used to shoot blacks, gays, and children is all the evidence that they need that you are a nut.

I do not live my life, nor do I temper my posts, based on what some liberal will misconstrue my words to mean. They already have convinced themselves that all of us are insane, and nothing that we say or do will change that. You will never advance your cause with words on the Internet. You want to win hearts and minds, take them to a range. But even then, they may be "terrified" and have "short-term PTSD" after firing a gun.

Go do your thing and don't get hung up on how you are perceived by others.

I will not suffer idiots and fools. This guy is both!