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This is iffy based on the story. It would not surprise me to find out that mom and this guy either had a relationship or that the mom wanted to have a relationship with him.

I know...it's sick...

Jusme wrote:I would definitely be looking to have sexual assault charges filed against him. He is way too old to have a 16 year old "girlfriend". Again, I don't know the laws in Oklahoma regarding effective consent, but it is illegal in Texas.

Looks like it's 16 in OK, as low as 14 depending on the age of the older person.

https://www.age-of-consent.info/states/Oklahoma

Of course, this would matter little if I found a 31 year old male in bed with my 17 yr old daughter.

goose wrote:

Jusme wrote: The mother may face charges, but I would bet that if she gets indicted, and it goes to trial, a jury would be very sympathetic. I know I would be.

I am right there. I wish her no ill will in my posts about why she might be arrested. I can just see why she might be. The guy can go rot in a cell. With buddies to help him with his urges.

Let's also consider that there have been cases where a 16 year old told a guy she was 18.

KC5AV wrote:

goose wrote:

Jusme wrote: The mother may face charges, but I would bet that if she gets indicted, and it goes to trial, a jury would be very sympathetic. I know I would be.

I am right there. I wish her no ill will in my posts about why she might be arrested. I can just see why she might be. The guy can go rot in a cell. With buddies to help him with his urges.

Let's also consider that there have been cases where a 16 year old told a guy she was 18.

I don't discount your or parabelum's thoughts either. All reasons why, unless she feared for her or her daughter's life, this is a no shoot for me. If she feared for one of their lives, that should come out too.

The next part an LEO is probably wondering about since they see domestic issues go sideways all the time, Mom better be hoping that the daughter doesn't throw her under the bus. Shoot daughter's sugar daddy in the butt and she can tell the police officers all sorts of bad/crazy things.

KC5AV wrote:

goose wrote:

Jusme wrote: The mother may face charges, but I would bet that if she gets indicted, and it goes to trial, a jury would be very sympathetic. I know I would be.

I am right there. I wish her no ill will in my posts about why she might be arrested. I can just see why she might be. The guy can go rot in a cell. With buddies to help him with his urges.

Let's also consider that there have been cases where a 16 year old told a guy she was 18.

Very true but if he's coming over regularly after the mother leaves for work, he knows what he's doing is wrong.

There's very little information given in either the written report or the video. The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16, so there's no statutory rape even if the two were engaged in sexual activity. Again, there's far too little information to determine if the use of deadly force would be justified unrelated to the man being in the daughter's room. I saw nothing to indicate he was told to leave and refused. Mom may be in big trouble.

I have no clue why he was flown to the hospital rather than being taken by ambulance.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:There's very little information given in either the written report or the video. The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16, so there's no statutory rape even if the two were engaged in sexual activity. Again, there's far too little information to determine if the use of deadly force would be justified unrelated to the man being in the daughter's room. I saw nothing to indicate he was told to leave and refused. Mom may be in big trouble.

I have no clue why he was flown to the hospital rather than being taken by ambulance.

Chas.

Paoli is a very small town, they may not have a hospital with a trauma center close by. I know that even where I live within 20 miles of a decent trauma center they often fly patients with severe injuries to either Ft. Worth or Dallas

The initial article did not mention "serious" injuries, just said he was shot in an extremity. However, if the injury is something the locals can't treat, often there are rules saying they have to fly rather than drive.

Years ago, a person I know broke their leg out in La Porte, TX. It was an odd break and the local ambulance couldn't take him to a local hospital. A Life Flight chopper landed and took him to hospital in the Houston medical center. They were not allowed to drive him into Houston.

As far as this goes, if you are sneaking into a teenage girl's house for sexual relations, you know damn well what the risks are whether you thought she was 18 or not and regardless of what is legal.

MechAg94 wrote:As far as this goes, if you are sneaking into a teenage girl's house for sexual relations, you know darn well what the risks are whether you thought she was 18 or not and regardless of what is legal.

I share your emotional and real-world response to what appears to be despicable conduct. I am not justifying a 31 year old man having sex with a 16 year old kid, even if it is legal in Oklahoma. However, as an attorney, LTC Instructor and former police officer, I want people to understand that one's emotions do not change the law. Based upon the few facts reported, it does not appear that the man violated Oklahoma law.

In Texas, the result could be quite different. First, the age of consent is 17 and and a 31 year old man having sex with a 16 year old girl (if that was happening) is sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault, per TPC §22.01 & §22.011. Concerning the use of force or deadly force, a person is presumed to "reasonably believe that deadly force was necessary" if they use force against someone to prevent sexual assault or aggravated sexual assault. (TPC §9.31(a)(1)(C) & ]§9.32(a)(2)(B)

Even in Texas, I don't want anyone to think that I'm advocating opening fire under such circumstances. Hold the guy for police and if he becomes a threat to you or your family, then protect yourself and your loved ones. Even if shooting and killing him would be legal and you are not prosecuted or convicted, you, and more importantly your daughter, will have to live with your decision. I wouldn't want my granddaughter to live with the knowledge that her actions got a man killed.

Chas.

Jusme wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:...

I have no clue why he was flown to the hospital rather than being taken by ambulance.

Chas.

Paoli is a very small town, they may not have a hospital with a trauma center close by. I know that even where I live within 20 miles of a decent trauma center they often fly patients with severe injuries to either Ft. Worth or Dallas

^^This. Trauma centers come in varying grades of capability, from Level V (lowest) to Level I (highest). A level one has general surgeons at the ready with all kinds of specialty care readily available. A level V or IV has basic emergency care, and maybe can do some surgery IF there is a qualified surgeon available, but normally they treat immediate life threats, try to stabilize the patient, and send him on to a higher level trauma center. So out in the field, when paramedics come upon a patient with significant trauma, they will send the patient directly to a higher level trauma center by the most expeditious means, bypassing closer hospitals with lesser capabilities because stopping at those actually would delay the necessary treatments. In my home county we have a Level IV institution, so pretty much all serious injuries form MVAs and gun shot wounds and the like end up going to San Antonio, occasionally some other city. Hospitals may have two trauma center ratings, one for adults, one for pediatrics, so that plays into it as well.

Jusme wrote:I would definitely be looking to have sexual assault charges filed against him. He is way too old to have a 16 year old "girlfriend". Again, I don't know the laws in Oklahoma regarding effective consent, but it is illegal in Texas.

The mother may face charges, but I would bet that if she gets indicted, and it goes to trial, a jury would be very sympathetic. I know I would be.

So I just googled Oklahoma's age of Consent - according to what I'm reading, is 16. If that is so, then no statutory rape.

I do agree that unless there is more to the story then we know, I think a jury nullification defense could work here very well.


edit: sat on that one a little too long. Forgot to hit submit and got busy and didn't think to check what had been said since

Charles L. Cotton wrote:There's very little information given in either the written report or the video. The age of consent in Oklahoma is 16, so there's no statutory rape even if the two were engaged in sexual activity. Again, there's far too little information to determine if the use of deadly force would be justified unrelated to the man being in the daughter's room. I saw nothing to indicate he was told to leave and refused. Mom may be in big trouble.

I have no clue why he was flown to the hospital rather than being taken by ambulance.

Chas.

That is what I remembered for age of consent in Oklahoma.

Last time I actually verified it, the age was 17 in Texas.

A little Monday morning quarterbacking here. I'm not sure I'd want to blast some guy in front of my daughter unless her life was in danger. I think if I found some guy in my daughter's room like this I would give him the option to stop what he was doing and wait for the police to arrive. Or option B if he so chooses if he doesn't like option A and resists. If my daughter really was being violated against her will I'm not sure that killing the man right there would make things any better or worse for her. Probably more worse than better.

Tough situation for sure.

Now, if the mother did a beat down on the guy with an iron skillet, well, that's pretty justified.