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Skiprr wrote:

WTR wrote:Most of the ARs shown here would be considered "assault" rifles if they had a bayonet attachment.

Seriously?

Google it..... even has a link from your post.

Skiprr wrote:

C-dub wrote:

Skiprr wrote: And FYI, if you want pick apart the term "battle rifle," I would include only the military, not law enforcement. LE has become more militarized over time--arguably either a good or bad thing, depending on where you stand--but even the DEA or FBI HRT don't actually go into "battle."

I also considered this, but then I thought that just because of who owns it doesn't change what it is. The M4 Sherman tanks and other models that often sit outside various posts or VFW's are still tanks or battle tanks or whatever. They may not be functional as such, but they are still tanks.

But even during the brief one-year period (61-62) when a rifle referred to as the "AR-15" found its way into unofficial use in Viet Nam, it was a full-auto select-fire. In November 1963, with the first military order from Colt, it became the "M16."

The Eugene Stoner military design was never semi-automatic only. Semi-autos never went into battle. So I guess it would be like calling a heavy vehicle designed and built to run on treads but with no armament a "battle tank." It's a tank, but its design has never seen battle.

That's true, but IIRC, we've heard of non-full auto M4's being used on the battlefields in recent years.

WTR wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

WTR wrote:Most of the ARs shown here would be considered "assault" rifles if they had a bayonet attachment.

Seriously?

Google it..... even has a link from your post.

This is the first result I got from google:
"The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[16] In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

It must be capable of selective fire.
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle.
Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).
Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles, despite frequently being called such.

For example:

Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 200 yards.[17]
Select-fire rifles such as the FN FAL battle rifle are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
Semi-automatic-only rifles like variants of the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
Semi-auto rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.
Selective fire rifles like the Fedorov Avtomat which in hindsight could be classified as prototypical assault rifles. However, 6.5x50mm Arisaka is still very much a full-powered rifle cartridge, only slightly weaker than 7.62x51mm NATO.
History"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

Bet most of the people who refer to an AR as an assault rifle believe that is what the AR is an abbreviation for. Of course we know differently.

jmra wrote:

WTR wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

WTR wrote:Most of the ARs shown here would be considered "assault" rifles if they had a bayonet attachment.

Seriously?

Google it..... even has a link from your post.

This is the first result I got from google:
"The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges."[16] In a strict definition, a firearm must have at least the following characteristics to be considered an assault rifle:[2][3][4]

It must be capable of selective fire.
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol but less than a standard rifle or battle rifle.
Its ammunition must be supplied from a detachable box magazine.[5]
It must have an effective range of at least 300 metres (330 yards).
Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles, despite frequently being called such.

For example:

Select-fire M2 Carbines are not assault rifles; their effective range is only 200 yards.[17]
Select-fire rifles such as the FN FAL battle rifle are not assault rifles; they fire full-powered rifle cartridges.
Semi-automatic-only rifles like variants of the Colt AR-15 are not assault rifles; they do not have select-fire capabilities.
Semi-auto rifles with fixed magazines like the SKS are not assault rifles; they do not have detachable box magazines and are not capable of automatic fire.
Selective fire rifles like the Fedorov Avtomat which in hindsight could be classified as prototypical assault rifles. However, 6.5x50mm Arisaka is still very much a full-powered rifle cartridge, only slightly weaker than 7.62x51mm NATO.
History"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

Google .....what makes an assault rifle

WTR wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

WTR wrote:Most of the ARs shown here would be considered "assault" rifles if they had a bayonet attachment.

Seriously?

Google it..... even has a link from your post.

You mean this link? http://www.nssf.org/msr/facts.cfm?

The one where the NSSF clarifies that:

The AR in "AR-15" rifle stands for ArmaLite rifle, after the company that developed it in the 1950s. "AR" does NOT stand for "assault rifle" or "automatic rifle."

Come on. If you think an AR-15 is an "assault rifle," this isn't the forum for you.

WTR wrote:Google .....what makes an assault rifle

Looks like the same results. Could you provide links to the sites you are referring to specifically?

jmra wrote:

WTR wrote:Google .....what makes an assault rifle

Looks like the same results. Could you provide links to the sites you are referring to specifically?

Must depend on whose difinition you find. I grant you the majority that I have found do state fully automatic. It is under " what makes an assault rifle" on skipper's first Google pot. I'm on N iPhone right now and am having trouble posting the link.

WTR wrote:

jmra wrote:

WTR wrote:Google .....what makes an assault rifle

Looks like the same results. Could you provide links to the sites you are referring to specifically?

Must depend on whose difinition you find. I grant you the majority that I have found do state fully automatic. It is under " what makes an assault rifle" on skipper's first Google pot. I'm on N iPhone right now and am having trouble posting the link.

The first hit I get is:
"It defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine and two or more of the following: a folding or telescoping stock. a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. a bayonet mount.
Assault rifle - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle"

But that is actually in the section discussing the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, not the actual definition of an assault rifle. Earlier in the article it states that an assault rifle must be selective fire.

When civilization collapses and we are fighting for our lives, wouldn't any rifle you have in your hands be a battle rifle?

I was always under the impression that the term "battle rifle" referred to such firearms as the M-14, FN-FAL, HK G3, etc. In other words, military full-automatic capable rifles in 7.62x51mm. The term differentiates those "full-power" rifles from the types such as the M-16 and others chambered in 5.56x45mm, commonly known as "assault rifles". Please note, I did not pick those terms, just passing on what I've read elsewhere.

That seems to be the strict definition.

K.Mooneyham wrote:I was always under the impression that the term "battle rifle" referred to such firearms as the M-14, FN-FAL, HK G3, etc. In other words, military full-automatic capable rifles in 7.62x51mm. The term differentiates those "full-power" rifles from the types such as the M-16 and others chambered in 5.56x45mm, commonly known as "assault rifles". Please note, I did not pick those terms, just passing on what I've read elsewhere.

This has been my understanding as well.

But, I also understand someone referring to a rifle as a "combat rifle", "fighting rifle" or "battle rifle" if they've specifically set it up with that purpose in mind.

Getting this upset about a term is a little strange.

Just a little bit of thread drift going on. It seems some have slipped into a discussion of what is an assault rifle when we're really discussing what is a battle rifle.

To the OP and others, in order for any rifle to be considered a battle riffle, must it have been used in battle or major conflict or just designed for that use? I doubt that full auto capability is required since there are many battle rifles that do not have that and never did such as the Garand, Enfield, nor 1903 I mentioned earlier.