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Bitter Clinger wrote:

bblhd672 wrote:http://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/lo ... /786160626

Editor's Note: This video is graphic in nature and should not be watched by all audiences.

I disagree - everyone should be required to watch this video and understand the depravity that exists around them so they can better prepare to deal with it.

In the video, you can allegedly see Vanzandt beat up Archer.

"Allegedly" he was a good young man who made a mistake.

There is only one way to cure that sociopath.

"Mozambique Drill"?

Wow, that was vicious!

That was definitely a dangerous and potentially deadly attack. If I had witnessed this, I would hope that I could take quick and decisive action to stop it. I say "hope" because that was so vicious and so sudden, that I might have been frozen - not with fear, but with shock - my mind not being able to quickly process what my eyes were seeing!

But yes, assuming I was not frozen in place and was able to take action, I would: draw my weapon, move to the best position I could - that is, possible cover and/or concealment, while at the same time doing a quick check of the angles and area behind my target - while yelling (only once): "stop NOW, or I WILL shoot you!" And I would do all those things simultaneously. Then if he did NOT stop, I would do what I said I would do. At least, that would be my plan.

On the other hand, if he did stop and leave when I yelled out, I would NOT follow him, but would observe how he left (on foot, car, bicycle, etc.) and note the direction he took and report that to the cops. Then I would try to render first aid while making sure that someone had already called 911. All while trying to keep one eye out to make sure he didn't circle back for a second chance.

Now, not to hijack the OP's thread, but I think this question is closely related enough to be relevant here. The question being: if you were the victim here, and you had an LTC and were armed, what would you do? And when and how would you do it?

Admittedly, there were some warning signs that the perp gave off that the victim missed that would have told the victim that something was about to happen. But I think all of us, even when we are trying to be observant, sometimes lapse into our own little world occasionally, even if only momentarily. Or I know I do, at least.

So what would you do if you were the victim here? When do you draw your weapon (assuming that you do)? When do you fire your weapon (assuming you do)? If you had spotted the guy giving you the eyeball before he took any other action, what you have done to stop this before it started?

Stuff that we all need to think about. Brings to mind the old saying: "your feet can't go where your mind hasn't already been."

The perp in this video clearly (in my OPINION) crossed the threshholds for "Theft" and "Robbery", and I could argue for "Aggravated Robbery" given the severity of the beating (fists, feet, defenselessness of victim, disparity of age and size, etc) and the fact that the perp wasn't stopping.

Of course none of us wants to live with the aftermath or heavy conscience that follows a shooting. However, assuming one has made the decision that deadly force is justified, it seems that getting verbal with the perp and giving him both reason and opportunity to turn his attack towards you would immediately and substantially increase the risk to your personal safety.

Options:
1. Move to cover and get verbal, hoping that would end the attack and the perp would flee or lay down.
2. Shoot him
3. Exit the area and do nothing to help
4. ?

Does the added risk of going verbal balance favorably vs. the remorse/consequences one might experience by shooting shooting this perp "right now"?

There was clearly deadly force being applied in that beating. The victim is lucky that he did not die.

Again, assuming that you have a clear understanding of what is going on, then my upbringing states that you cannot stand idly by while the blood of your neighbor is spilled. The biblical requirement to intervene is found in Leviticus 19:16.

thatguyoverthere wrote: Now, not to hijack the OP's thread, but I think this question is closely related enough to be relevant here. The question being: if you were the victim here, and you had an LTC and were armed, what would you do? And when and how would you do it?

I ran across this news story last night, but didn't know this thread was already running.

http://abc13.com/video-shows-brutal-bea ... e/2292327/

My first thought when reading the story was, "That is why I carry." Picture yourself as the victim, not the bystander.

No one could say without doubt that they could successfully draw their gun and fire while being beaten like that, but being able to try is a darn sight better that being a defenseless victim. The real question for me? How long would I wait before I fired the first round? I hope I wouldn't wait until it's too late.

RoyGBiv wrote: Does the added risk of going verbal balance favorably vs. the remorse/consequences one might experience by shooting shooting this perp "right now"?

You also have to consider the possible remorse/consequences one might experience if/when you learn the victim died, and you did nothing to help him.

Bitter Clinger wrote:...my upbringing states that you cannot stand idly by while the blood of your neighbor is spilled. The biblical requirement to intervene is found in Leviticus 19:16.

Definitely not an easy decision to make, and one I think most people don't really know what they would do until if/when faced with that exact situation.

http://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/lo ... /786160626

Watch this again and note how the camera zooms onto the "alleged" attacker. Someone was watching this camera live and zoomed in on this guy, panning to follow the action. Perhaps because he was known to be trouble?

bblhd672 wrote:http://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/lo ... /786160626

Watch this again and note how the camera zooms onto the "alleged" attacker. Someone was watching this camera live and zoomed in on this guy, panning to follow the action. Perhaps because he was known to be trouble?

I don't think anyone was watching this attack live with a zoom and pan security cam. I think the security video was being played on a monitor after the fact and being recorded by yet another camera pointed at the monitor. The second camera does the zooming and panning.

I might shoot the ceiling to get his attention and break it up but depending on how close etc. I might feel too threatened and have to just shoot him in self defense as well as defense of the attacked individual.

ELB wrote:

bblhd672 wrote:http://www.easttexasmatters.com/news/lo ... /786160626

Watch this again and note how the camera zooms onto the "alleged" attacker. Someone was watching this camera live and zoomed in on this guy, panning to follow the action. Perhaps because he was known to be trouble?

I don't think anyone was watching this attack live with a zoom and pan security cam. I think the security video was being played on a monitor after the fact and being recorded by yet another camera pointed at the monitor. The second camera does the zooming and panning.

Rats..I didn't think about someone taking video of the video.

LDB415 wrote:I might shoot the ceiling to get his attention and break it up but depending on how close etc. I might feel too threatened and have to just shoot him in self defense as well as defense of the attacked individual.

I consider warning shots a no-no. You don't know who might be upstairs or on the roof.

george wrote:Not defending the bad guy, but I think it is unwise to stand in the middle of the store and play with the money in your wallet for everyone to see.

Mel wrote: I consider warning shots a no-no. You don't know who might be upstairs or on the roof.

True. I was going on the presumption it was a one story strip center so nothing to worry about.

Then there's the nitpicking question of just WHEN you would intervene with deadly force. After he hit him one time? Two times? Two hits and a kick? Do it too early, and you're sticking your neck out legally. Do it too late and, well, it's too late.

Myself..... defending myself or my family is one thing. But killing somebody to defend a stranger is another. It's a crazy world out there; people are being beaten and robbed as you read this. I would probably go over and kick the crap out of the bad guy (i.e., use force) and tell him to stop. If he made a threatening move of any kind, I'd repeat, "STOP!" and expose or draw my weapon. After that, up to him.