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rotor wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 pm I understand the angst of these orders but realistically how do you handle a family member that is mentally deranged and armed? One that you actually fear may use a firearm to hurt themselves or others but one that you personally can not take their firearms. There are actually very bad people out there that we may personally know and yet we have no control over what they might do. Obviously it should take a court and legal procedure but right now what do we have? We all have to be realistic that there are people that should not have firearms.

Anything the government does with secret court processes is guaranteed to be antithetical to freedom.

We have and have had for many years courts and compulsory psychiatric evaluations to manage these problems. They work fine when they're used, and they are much harder to misuse than the red flag end around the constitution. That's what due process is all about.

The red flag secret seizure orders are even better than swatting for grievously harming someone a given person doesn't like because, unlike swatting, they're "legal", and just as dangerous to the subject and to the officers tasked with carrying the order out.

You can also be sure they are designed as another camel's nose under the tent, with continuous expansion of scope once they've been established.

rotor wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 pm I understand the angst of these orders but realistically how do you handle a family member that is mentally deranged and armed? One that you actually fear may use a firearm to hurt themselves or others but one that you personally can not take their firearms. There are actually very bad people out there that we may personally know and yet we have no control over what they might do. Obviously it should take a court and legal procedure but right now what do we have? We all have to be realistic that there are people that should not have firearms.

Maybe someone's already said it, but I have no desire to push my responsibilities onto others. I don't expect government to be competent or compassionate. I have safely removed weapons from family members with failing mental acuity. No court and no doctor. Just the consensus of my family it was the time to step up. FWIW
Nick

Diesel42 wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:46 am

rotor wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 pm I understand the angst of these orders but realistically how do you handle a family member that is mentally deranged and armed? One that you actually fear may use a firearm to hurt themselves or others but one that you personally can not take their firearms. There are actually very bad people out there that we may personally know and yet we have no control over what they might do. Obviously it should take a court and legal procedure but right now what do we have? We all have to be realistic that there are people that should not have firearms.

Maybe someone's already said it, but I have no desire to push my responsibilities onto others. I don't expect government to be competent or compassionate. I have safely removed weapons from family members with failing mental acuity. No court and no doctor. Just the consensus of my family it was the time to step up. FWIW
Nick

US Senate Bill 7
Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s7/text

Chuck Baldwin’s response:
https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/t ... Et-Al.aspx

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has announced that the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to begin conducting hearings next Tuesday, March 26, on Senate Bill 7, the Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019—otherwise known as a national “red flag” gun confiscation bill. The bill was introduced in the Senate by Marco Rubio (R-FL). If this gun confiscation bill passes the U.S. Senate, it will most certainly pass the Democrat-controlled U.S. House of Representatives, and President Donald Trump absolutely WILL sign it into law.

rotor wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 pm We all have to be realistic that there are people that should not have firearms.

Their problems are not my problems. Infringing on the rights and treading on the liberties of law abiding, taxpaying citizens is everyone's problem. And if you believe otherwise, then we have to be realistic that you are part of the problem.

rotor wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:27 pm We all have to be realistic that there are people that should not have firearms.

We also need to be realistic that there are people who should not have free speech or practice their religion , should not be able to vote, should not be allowed due process, should not be exempt from cruel and unusual punishment, should not be allowed to operate motor vehicle, should not be allowed to procreate, should be enslaved.....are you catching on yet?

You want to single out one God given right to self defense and say some people shouldn’t have it. There are people exercising some of the right and privileges I listed above that are far more dangerous to their fellow citizens than gun owners.

You are correct though that there are some truly mentally disturbed and deranged people who should have their rights removed by due process. And not just their right to keep and bear arms for self defense. Due process, stringent due process with the greatest concern that an individual’s rights not be restricted until he/she has had the determination made by more than a judge acting on an accusation.

The government needs to pass legislation to prosecute those who are going to commit crimes before they actually do so. Think of all the bad things they can prevent

anygunanywhere wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:36 am The government needs to pass legislation to prosecute those who are going to commit crimes before they actually do so. Think of all the bad things they can prevent

I agree and it seems that now our representatives regardless of flavor (Senate and House) are telling each other, "Here hold my beer".

anygunanywhere wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:36 am The government needs to pass legislation to prosecute those who are going to commit crimes before they actually do so. Think of all the bad things they can prevent

What was the name of that Tom Cruise movie where he arrested people who have the ability to break the law in the future? I think the nazi's did the same thing in the mid 1930's. And that was called persecution.

bblhd672 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 am US Senate Bill 7
Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s7/text

Chuck Baldwin’s response:
https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/t ... Et-Al.aspx

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has announced that the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to begin conducting hearings next Tuesday, March 26, on Senate Bill 7, the Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019—otherwise known as a national “red flag” gun confiscation bill. The bill was introduced in the Senate by Marco Rubio (R-FL). If this gun confiscation bill passes the U.S. Senate, it will most certainly pass the Democrat-controlled U.S. House of Representatives, and President Donald Trump absolutely WILL sign it into law.

THE GOP WILL SAVE US!

joe817 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:18 pm
What was the name of that Tom Cruise movie where he arrested people who have the ability to break the law in the future? I think the nazi's did the same thing in the mid 1930's. And that was called persecution.

Minority Report. Based upon a 1956 short story "The Minority Report" by Phillip Dick.

Grumpy1993 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:20 pm

bblhd672 wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:19 am US Senate Bill 7
Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/116/s7/text

Chuck Baldwin’s response:
https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/t ... Et-Al.aspx

Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) has announced that the Senate Judiciary Committee is scheduled to begin conducting hearings next Tuesday, March 26, on Senate Bill 7, the Extreme Risk Protection Order and Violence Prevention Act of 2019—otherwise known as a national “red flag” gun confiscation bill. The bill was introduced in the Senate by Marco Rubio (R-FL). If this gun confiscation bill passes the U.S. Senate, it will most certainly pass the Democrat-controlled U.S. House of Representatives, and President Donald Trump absolutely WILL sign it into law.

THE GOP WILL SAVE US!