TexasCHLforum.com

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality. He has a history of only promoting that part which makes him look heroic, and burying those parts that make him look like a fool. It's my observation that the latter instances outnumber the former.

This particular video doesn’t show him, and it seems pretty straightforward. But as a general thing, I think that Grisham has done more harm than good for increasing the acceptance of 2nd Amendment rights by politicians.

What I meant is:

A. I am generally mistrustful of CJ Grisham because I think he is an unstable individual. He has a LONG history of placing himself at the center of controversies between police and open carry advocates, and has even broken federal law on camera (I.e. open carrying in Oklahoma subsequent to a disqualifying conviction here in Texas). His imprimatur is on the beginning of THIS video, so I was initially mistrustful when I started to watch it.

B. I ALSO said (above) that THIS video seems straightforward. In other words, it doesn’t seem like CJ's usual fare. I’m happy for that.

I’m not sure how much more elaboration is necessary. CJ's own record right here on this forum, in debates with Charles Cotton - who had done WAY MORE for the cause of the 2nd Amendment over a period of decades than CJ Grisham will ever accomplish - is the record of an excitable, not entirely stable person, not entirely grounded in reality, with little understanding of what happens in the halls of gov’t. I don’t mean that he’s hallucinating or anything like that. I mean that he has a singular view of both human nature and how the world works, which is not in sync with either reality. It comes off - to me, anyway, as well as to many others - as egomaniacal and off-putting.

You catch more flies with honey. He never learned that most fundamental of social skills; and that makes him a poor witness for the 2nd Amendment, in a world in which we need to win more allies, not make more enemies. I’m actually glad that he seemed to have taken a step back from things for a couple of years. If all he ever does going forward is to make videos like this one, then he might be able to make up for some of the damage he’s done in the past.

I hope that is enough elaboration, and yes, Bonnen DID lie.

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

TAM I thought you were pretty clear in you post, but then again I read the whole post. I totally agree with you and I hope Grishamites will learn to read it in the whole before asking you to repeat yourself.

I hope the Bonnen fanboys watch the DPS body cam video and finally admit the real reason unlicensed carry was killed this year was because of Bonnen. Period.

Bonnen made his committee chairman appointments at the beginning of the session, and unlicensed carry was doomed from the start, just like Charles said months ago.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=94723

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:45 pm I hope the Bonnen fanboys watch the DPS body cam video and finally admit the real reason unlicensed carry was killed this year was because of Bonnen. Period.

Bonnen made his committee chairman appointments at the beginning of the session, and unlicensed carry was doomed from the start, just like Charles said months ago.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=94723

I think most people acknowledge Bonnen killed unlicensed open carry and many other pro gun and a lot of other legislation long before this encounter or the video being published.

Where are these Bonnen fanboys to whom you refer?


Edited to correct my spellchecker's correction of "killed" to "liked". Only thing worse than a spellchecker is a progressive politically correct spellchecker.

I am so ashamed the man in the Speaker Office,and his wife are Bald faced Liars

lonestar144 wrote: Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:22 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH-0PCKMZ00

What do I think? I think the speaker and his chair should both resign. I also think the activist should file a defamation lawsuit against both of them.

mojo84 wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:40 pm

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:45 pm I hope the Bonnen fanboys watch the DPS body cam video and finally admit the real reason unlicensed carry was killed this year was because of Bonnen. Period.

Bonnen made his committee chairman appointments at the beginning of the session, and unlicensed carry was doomed from the start, just like Charles said months ago.

https://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=94723

I think most people acknowledge Bonnen killed unlicensed open carry and many other pro gun and a lot of other legislation long before this encounter or the video being published.

Where are these Bonnen fanboys to whom you refer?


Edited to correct my spellchecker's correction of "killed" to "liked". Only thing worse than a spellchecker is a progressive politically correct spellchecker.

Whew! That's better!

Pawpaw wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:29 pm

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

Capture.JPG

CJ tweeted it out, he didn't make the video. There were two DPS officers present, only one is featured on the camera. The other was the person engaging with the activist.

CJ will forward just about anything he thinks can help is cause.

I do agree though that CJ has probably done far more harm than good for the cause of gun rights. The folks who "represent" us doen in Austin generally don't appreciate grassroots activism.

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:42 pm

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality. He has a history of only promoting that part which makes him look heroic, and burying those parts that make him look like a fool. It's my observation that the latter instances outnumber the former.

This particular video doesn’t show him, and it seems pretty straightforward. But as a general thing, I think that Grisham has done more harm than good for increasing the acceptance of 2nd Amendment rights by politicians.

What I meant is:

A. I am generally mistrustful of CJ Grisham because I think he is an unstable individual. He has a LONG history of placing himself at the center of controversies between police and open carry advocates, and has even broken federal law on camera (I.e. open carrying in Oklahoma subsequent to a disqualifying conviction here in Texas). His imprimatur is on the beginning of THIS video, so I was initially mistrustful when I started to watch it.

B. I ALSO said (above) that THIS video seems straightforward. In other words, it doesn’t seem like CJ's usual fare. I’m happy for that.

I’m not sure how much more elaboration is necessary. CJ's own record right here on this forum, in debates with Charles Cotton - who had done WAY MORE for the cause of the 2nd Amendment over a period of decades than CJ Grisham will ever accomplish - is the record of an excitable, not entirely stable person, not entirely grounded in reality, with little understanding of what happens in the halls of gov’t. I don’t mean that he’s hallucinating or anything like that. I mean that he has a singular view of both human nature and how the world works, which is not in sync with either reality. It comes off - to me, anyway, as well as to many others - as egomaniacal and off-putting.

You catch more flies with honey. He never learned that most fundamental of social skills; and that makes him a poor witness for the 2nd Amendment, in a world in which we need to win more allies, not make more enemies. I’m actually glad that he seemed to have taken a step back from things for a couple of years. If all he ever does going forward is to make videos like this one, then he might be able to make up for some of the damage he’s done in the past.

I hope that is enough elaboration, and yes, Bonnen DID lie.

To the Bolded, I don't believe this is at all accurate. In the Temple case with officer Ernis he was not convicted of a felony as I recall, the charges were reduced to a misdmeanor "interference with a peach officer".

Ernis was a jerk and wrong from the start in that encounter and should have lost his job with all charges being dropped completely.

That being said I don't like CJ's provocative style, it makes us all look bad.

WildRose wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:20 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:42 pm

apostate wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality.

Care to elaborate?

This appears to be DPS body cam video. So unless CJ became a DPS trooper, I'm not sure what it has to do with video exposing Dennis Bonnen and his wife as liars.

The Annoyed Man wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:59 pm I’m inclined to be suspicious of any video made by, or featuring CJ Grisham - who has only a tenuous grasp on reality. He has a history of only promoting that part which makes him look heroic, and burying those parts that make him look like a fool. It's my observation that the latter instances outnumber the former.

This particular video doesn’t show him, and it seems pretty straightforward. But as a general thing, I think that Grisham has done more harm than good for increasing the acceptance of 2nd Amendment rights by politicians.

What I meant is:

A. I am generally mistrustful of CJ Grisham because I think he is an unstable individual. He has a LONG history of placing himself at the center of controversies between police and open carry advocates, and has even broken federal law on camera (I.e. open carrying in Oklahoma subsequent to a disqualifying conviction here in Texas). His imprimatur is on the beginning of THIS video, so I was initially mistrustful when I started to watch it.

B. I ALSO said (above) that THIS video seems straightforward. In other words, it doesn’t seem like CJ's usual fare. I’m happy for that.

I’m not sure how much more elaboration is necessary. CJ's own record right here on this forum, in debates with Charles Cotton - who had done WAY MORE for the cause of the 2nd Amendment over a period of decades than CJ Grisham will ever accomplish - is the record of an excitable, not entirely stable person, not entirely grounded in reality, with little understanding of what happens in the halls of gov’t. I don’t mean that he’s hallucinating or anything like that. I mean that he has a singular view of both human nature and how the world works, which is not in sync with either reality. It comes off - to me, anyway, as well as to many others - as egomaniacal and off-putting.

You catch more flies with honey. He never learned that most fundamental of social skills; and that makes him a poor witness for the 2nd Amendment, in a world in which we need to win more allies, not make more enemies. I’m actually glad that he seemed to have taken a step back from things for a couple of years. If all he ever does going forward is to make videos like this one, then he might be able to make up for some of the damage he’s done in the past.

I hope that is enough elaboration, and yes, Bonnen DID lie.

To the Bolded, I don't believe this is at all accurate. In the Temple case with officer Ernis he was not convicted of a felony as I recall, the charges were reduced to a misdmeanor "interference with a peach officer".

Ernis was a jerk and wrong from the start in that encounter and should have lost his job with all charges being dropped completely.

That being said I don't like CJ's provocative style, it makes us all look bad.

In the initial Temple case, CJ started with the moral high ground. Officer Ernis was clearly the aggressor in that encounter. Unfortunately, CJ ceded the moral high ground through many of his actions since that initial encounter.

WildRose wrote: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:51 pm
What do I think? I think the speaker and his chair should both resign. I also think the activist should file a defamation lawsuit against both of them.

I agree... bonnen and his tactics are bush league.

This isn't CJ, this is McNutt, everything I have heard about him is that he is one of the nicest, gentlest people you would ever want to meet. This vidoe shows that it was nothing more than a friendly conversation on the side of the road.

So Bonnen lied/exaggerated/mischaracterized/politicized whatever you want to call it. Most politicians do that without a second thought.

What Bonnen didn't lie about was McNutt going to his and other legislators homes while they were in Austin for the legislative session. And that is the crux of what McNutt did to reflect badly upon himself and law abiding gun owners in Texas who want less restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights. That he did it in the nicest, gentlest manner possible doesn't mean he was right in doing it.

No elected official is going to go after the Speaker in an effort to oust him during the legislative session over this.

bblhd672 wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:16 am So Bonnen lied/exaggerated/mischaracterized/politicized whatever you want to call it. Most politicians do that without a second thought.

What Bonnen didn't lie about was McNutt going to his and other legislators homes while they were in Austin for the legislative session. And that is the crux of what McNutt did to reflect badly upon himself and law abiding gun owners in Texas who want less restrictions on their 2nd Amendment rights. That he did it in the nicest, gentlest manner possible doesn't mean he was right in doing it.

No elected official is going to go after the Speaker in an effort to oust him during the legislative session over this.

What he did and how he did it are examples of passive aggressive behavior. He drove across the state to show up at their homes and neighborhoods while the legislators weren't home to let them know he and his followers know where they live.

What he did is a passive aggressive method of doxing and intimidation.

SewTexas wrote: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:52 am This isn't CJ, this is McNutt, everything I have heard about him is that he is one of the nicest, gentlest people you would ever want to meet. This vidoe shows that it was nothing more than a friendly conversation on the side of the road.

McNutt does appear to be a vey nice guy and reasonable and well-informed in that video. I ended up accepting that video at face value. I was merely stating my initial response based on my mistrust of Grisham, and ONLY because his name appears at the front end of the video once it got past the introduction. It’s like generally not trusting gas station sushi, but maybe THIS gas station has very good sushi, despite being labeled "Gas Station Sushi" right on the box. I may enjoy this particular sushi experience, but I’m still generally mistrustful of anything labeled as gas station sushi. If this video had not had Grisham's name at the front end, I wouldn’t have responded the way I did.

Mind you, I am FOR constitutional carry, absolutely and without equivocation. What I am NOT for is the way that some people deliver the message. McNutt seems to be doing a good job, and I hope he continues along the lines of what he’s doing. OTHER people, not so much; and CJ Grisham is among them. Not everybody has the personality for successful grassroots activism. Militant behavior can taint a message that is not in and of itself a militant message. Constitutional carry is about liberty, and liberty isn’t militant because it is the default order of things. It takes intentional human beings to screw it up and place limitations upon it. The best way to communicate the message of Liberty is with sweet reason and a friendly demeanor. Unless your intention is to deliberately provoke a violent response, strident militant exhibitionism - which has been CJ's historical record - alienates more people than it convinces; because it changes the listener's focus from the message to the activist....particularly when that activist is behaving aggressively while making an ostentatious display of being armed. It is well within human nature for the as-yet neutral observer to become alarmed at what he is seeing, and to conflate the message of liberty with erratic and possibly dangerous behavior. THAT is why there’s no room for hotheads in constitutional carry activism.

But other than having a poor regard for people who I believe do more harm than good in gun rights activism, I am all for constitutional carry.