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Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:52 am
by RoyGBiv
Nickgibson72 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:46 am This guy was playing a dangerous game for sure. He may have been trying to prove a point, but with everyone on high alert, this could have ended much worse. You have an armed citizen who confronted him and held him until the police arrived. But what if that armed citizen wasn't so calm headed. What if that armed citizen said "nope not today" and just opened fire, fearing that there may be another mass shooting about to go down? I don't think anyone would blame the firefighter if he had opened fire, with all that has been going on. This man most likely was trying to prove some point, but this was not the way to do it. He was luck this time. The next person who tries this may not be so lucky.
The story I just read said that the armed, retired FF stopped the guy as he was exiting through an emergency door. Reasonable to assume that the FF was watching him not shoot anyone and didn't have an immediate reason to shoot the idiot as he was exiting the store.
Link: https://www.ky3.com/content/news/Heavy- ... 02951.html

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:14 am
by Robert*PPS
My fear is that Walmarts will be signed soon. I don't know how anyone would ever think this was a good idea.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:25 am
by The Annoyed Man
Tex1961 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:17 am So, I have to ask for conversation sake. You’re there, you see this jack wagon. What would you have done. Before you answer, think on it for a few minutes. Really dig and decide truly what you would have done.

Was he an immediate threat...
Was he just exercising his constitutional rights
You may only have minutes to act
Your family might have been there with you.
I would have gotten myself, and my family if they’re with me, the heck out of there. Answering your questions in order:
  1. potentially, yes.
  2. yes, but in an inappropriate context.
  3. get the heck out.
  4. get all of us out.
Bottom line....it’s your right to walk around with an AR, wearing a tactical vest stuffed with spare mags. But unless you really need a long gun at that moment, it’s a really REALLY stupid idea. Context is everything in social interactions, and going to the market is a form of social interaction. When you laugh at what a friend is telling you, are you laughing because he just told you a funny joke, or are you laughing because he told you that his mother just died? Laughing in both instances—a seemingly harmless expression—but the context makes your laughter into two diametrically opposed things.....mirthful fellowship on one hand, and vicious cruelty on the other hand. Context is EVERYTHING, and one has to be autistic to not know this and to act accordingly. The word we use to describe something that is contextually correct is "appropriateness". What this fool did was absolutely inappropriate. And by the way, this guy's AR was slung to the front of his body. (It’s an AR pistol.)

CLICK TO EMBIGGEN
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You want to open carry? Fine, go ahead. It’s your right. I open carry sometimes. So do most cops, most of the time, and nobody blinks an eye....except for the occasional precious snowflake at Starbucks. But a holstered pistol is one thing. If you see the cop carrying his pistol in his hand, it means another thing entirely. But if you see a cop all tacticaled up and carrying an AR on front of his body—slung or not—you have to have water on the brain not to realize that there is a threat present, and to not get yourself out of harm's way.

This bonehead drives up to a Walmart, just days after a mass shooting at another Walmart, jocks up and enters the store, and then exhibits behavior that qualifies as bizarre. You’d have to be brain dead not to see him as at least a potential threat. We are always at risk of forgetting that our LTC is not a Batman license, and there is a fine line between defending one's self, loved ones, or innocent third parties, and unjustifiable homicide. You have to ask yourself, what would a cop do in this situation, but even then, you might not have the same "Good Samaritan" protections under the law that a cop has. (Yes, I know, the Good Samaritan laws are for a different context, but bear with me as I use it for an analog.)

Here’s what I would do....
  1. remove myself/loved ones from danger.
  2. call 911 while evading/escaping.
  3. be a good witness in so far as I can do so without exposing myself unnecessarily.
  4. LAST RESORT, draw my gun if we're unable to escape further and he shoulders the rifle, and light him up if he aims it at me or mine.
And all of that depends on my keeping my wits about me in the moment. I’ve been shot at once by someone who didn’t know I was there, but I’ve never been in combat or an active shooter situation. So literally EVERYTHING in that list is purely speculation. The primary value of it is to get/keep me thinking about possible courses of action, and maintaining situational awareness.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:26 am
by The Annoyed Man
03Lightningrocks wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:34 pm
gtolbert09 wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:17 pm “A firefighter held him at gunpoint”. Springfield has armed firefighters?
I just assumed the firefighter had a concealed carry permit.
He was off duty.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:36 am
by Middle Age Russ
Given the inappropriateness of the actors behaviors, as pointed out by TAM, one has to wonder what his motivation was. Did he have suicidal thoughts? Was he trying, successfully or not, to make some point? Was he simply an attention seeker? Did he desire to harm others? Hopefully the answer about his motivation will spark some constructive debate and not just serve as operational intelligence shared among sociopaths.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:54 am
by Lynyrd
Tex1961 wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:17 am So, I have to ask for conversation sake. You’re there, you see this jack wagon. What would you have done. Before you answer, think on it for a few minutes. Really dig and decide truly what you would have done.

Was he an immediate threat...
Was he just exercising his constitutional rights
You may only have minutes to act
Your family might have been there with you.
No disrespect to anyone who gave an answer to this question, but I for one do not know for certain what I would have done. Why? Because you never truly know what you will do in any given situation until you have faced it. And I have not faced such a situation, nor do I want to. I can guess. I can offer my best intentions. I can think about it hard and try to say what the correct thing to do would be. But in that moment, when the pressure is on, and there is little time to decide, I can only hope that I would do the right thing.

That being said, I would get my family out as quickly as possible while staying between them and this guy. What he did was ill advised, and designed to cause panic IMHO. I don't think I would panic, but I would certainly keep my eyes on him for any sign of a threat to use his weapons. If he shouldered his rifle, or drew his pistol, I would like to believe that I would have acted appropriately. And if I had been there and witnessed this incident as it was described, I would have certainly been assisting the off duty fireman in detaining this idiot for LEO.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:09 am
by WTR
When I saw a man OC in a WalMart ( Const. Legal in NM ). I shadowed him keeping cover between us and a good kill zone present if needed. The only reason I did this was his deminor and load talk ( so that everyone could hear ) that he needed some Zombie killer bullets for his 9. I would not have given it a second thought otherwise.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:56 am
by Grayling813
Middle Age Russ wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:36 am Given the inappropriateness of the actors behaviors, as pointed out by TAM, one has to wonder what his motivation was. Did he have suicidal thoughts? Was he trying, successfully or not, to make some point? Was he simply an attention seeker? Did he desire to harm others? Hopefully the answer about his motivation will spark some constructive debate and not just serve as operational intelligence shared among sociopaths.
Really have to wonder if he's another leftist....pursuing the agenda. He's without question an idiot.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:39 am
by Daddio-on-patio
People never cease to amaze me...

Some fire departments in Texas do have armed members. Cross trained as commissioned law enforcement providing Fire Marshal service.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:48 am
by C-dub
My reaction is totally dependent on the situation.

In this case, since it looks like the guy might be some level of MHMR, probably if any family member were with me I would have told them to leave and call the police and let them know I was inside and what I was wearing and that I was an LTC. For me, my hearing aides are connected to my phone and I can talk on my phone while it is in my pocket. I would also call the police describing what was going on and that I was watching him until the police showed up and would act if he started shooting before they arrived.

I have a fair amount of experience with MHMR folks, but no formal or licensed training. If I don't think that is the issue I'll probably just go about my business, while covertly attempting to shadow and keep an eye on him. If it appears like just some fool making a point with no intent to actually harm anyone I'll just go about my business, but still be wary of him and out of his path.

If I'm aware of a person like this I'm not sure I could just leave the sheeple to fend for themselves knowing I might have been able to help. I know I would n't be legally responsible for leaving if anything did happen after I left, but morally? I'm not sure in my own head. That would be a tough thing to live with and while I probably could, well, IDK. I hope I never find out, but I'll cross that bridge if I ever get to that stream.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:01 pm
by Lynyrd
Daddio-on-patio wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:39 am People never cease to amaze me...

Some fire departments in Texas do have armed members. Cross trained as commissioned law enforcement providing Fire Marshal service.
:iagree:
The Fire Marshall job is a position of law enforcement. But I did not read in the articles that the fireman involved in this story was law enforcement.

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:33 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
AndyC wrote: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:24 pm I want to hear what rifle-boy's motives were.
Maybe he was considering doing the worse. Maybe he "chickened out" at the last minute. If he were at least not considering it, why would he have been carrying so many rounds and wearing body armor?

Re: MO: Armed man arrested at Walmart.

Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:48 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
You figure he will be honest about it all?