cprems wrote:C-dub wrote:cprems wrote:The CEO just said NO GUNS. Which part of that are you failing to understand?
Regardless of the what the law states, he has said NO GUNS. That is effective warning and its enough for me. I'll spend my money elsewhere!
Cprems, do you have your CHL or have you actually read 30.06? This is a written request, not an oral request. You may certainly choose to do business elsewhere, as will many others, but this is in no way effective notice according to Texas law.
Yes and yes. As I stated in my previous posts, it may not be effective notice but its good enough for me.
What I don't get is the division between open carry and CC. This is the Second Amendment we're talking about here. If we fail to come together and support BOTH, then we are no better than those who wish to take away BOTH!
We need to get it together and do it quick.
You (generalized) either support the Second Amendment or you don't, we cannot have it both ways. This is an all or nothing issue.
We don't get to choose bits that we like.
Absolutely we get to choose, because it isn't about choosing to support the 2nd Amendment, it's about choose HOW we go about that. There is a wrong way, and a right way. Malcolm X started off as a Nation of Islam black firebrand, and he ended as a non-violent pacifist, agreeing with MLK that confrontational tactics were counterproductive. Early in his career as an activist, he was the equivalent of the heedless OC crowd. At the end of his career,
before he was murdered by the more radical elements of Nation of Islam, he was more like a thoughtful activist who understands that getting in other people's faces is counterproductive. That is why today we have a MLK day and not a Malcolm X day.....because people understand that it was the quiet dignity and tireless efforts, and above all the
spiritual anointing that MLK had which gave the civil rights movement its legitimacy.......
not because of thoughtless confrontationalism.
Also, a lot of the more heedless among the OC crowd fail to take something
else into consideration: there has ALWAYS been a segment of our society, going back to the days of the founders, who are afraid of the open brandishing of firearms because it often has presaged
actual violence. My own mother lived through the nazi occupation of her native land. To her, guns ARE weapons of war, because the only people who carried them were either invading oppressors, or invading liberators. Otherwise, firearms were not really a common part of the culture (European), and outside of law-enforcement, war, or hunting, they were really only used by criminals. She became a citizen back in the 1980s, but she's held onto her worldview for too long to change. That mentality has ALSO been a part of
our national culture for decades now, Texas notwithstanding. Add to that the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of people transplanted to Texas from gun-banning states, and you've got a very different culture even here in Texas from that of 4 or 5 decades ago. It's too bad, but it is a fact; and
those people have just as many rights as you or I do........whether or not they choose to recognize and exercise all of them.
Inconveniently the way the law is worded.........and I assume has been worded for a very long time.....the idea of an otherwise legally open-carried weapon being displayed in a manner intended to create alarm leaves a LOT of room for self-centered anti-freedom nazis to claim that your gun created alarm in them. It's a short leap from there for an arresting officer to give you a ride, and let the courts determine your
intention (or lack thereof) to cause alarm.
AS LONG AS THAT IS THE LETTER OF THE LAW, antis will use the law to limit yours and my rights. If as and when it ever gets to the point where "they" are randomly snatching up gunowners without warning and sending us to detention camps, I will gladly join you and anybody else in a revolutionary war to reclaim my government. But pending such a scenario, I am totally unwilling to go to jail with you just so that
you can walk around with a long gun. I can always keep a long gun in my car.....loaded or not....if I want to. I can carry a loaded and concealed pistol pretty much anywhere I want to. The list of places where I can't is so short that it doesn't affect me that much. I don't have a need to sit in Starbucks with my AR15 slung over my shoulder. It gets heavy after a while, and besides, it is more fun to shoot or hunt with than it is to just carry around on a hot day. I'm getting old and my back hurts, and I've no patience for hot-heads who won't listen to reason.
Search all of my posts for the words "Constitutional Carry" and you'll see that I've got nothing to apologize for in support of the 2nd Amendment. I'm right there with you in that. But I'm old enough that I've learned some things about human nature. People who cannot understand the effect they have on other people when they openly carry their long guns are refusing to take human nature into account, and my 2nd Amendment rights are too precious to hitch them to a wagon being driven by foolish people. For me, watching this whole process of open carry demonstrations has been like watching a slow-motion train wreck, and realizing that I am powerless to stop it. I flat
KNEW that Starbucks would eventually react this way if OC'ers kept pushing it and pushing it. It was utterly predictable, and it is a setback for achieving ultimate Constitutional Carry because it makes others view that cause as being populated by nutters and extremists. Extremism in
defense of liberty is no vice (to paraphrase Ben Franklin), but extremism in trying to change existing law is just foolishness unless the law is being used to justify the rounding up and imprisoning of peaceful law-abiding people. Changing existing law for the better requires patience, intelligence, and dedication. It is grownup work.
