TexasCHLforum.com

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

No, he cannot. It's already settled by SCOTUS. he has to be able to articulate a reason.......which is not that hard......but it has to be plausible.

ATX117 wrote:

thechl wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

thechl wrote:Didn't we just celebrate the passing of SB273? Isn't that a bill that merely reiterates current Texas law, but then adds a penalty because municipalities are ignoring that law with impunity?

Not really. There has never been a prohibition on governmental entities posting 30.06 signs; they were simply unenforceable. Now it is unlawful to do so.

Chas.

This site has been an enormously educational resource that I have enjoyed over the last three legislative sessions. Thank you, not only for the website, but also for the insight you freely share.

And thank you to all the members here who also share their knowledge, wit and frustration, usually with decorum.

I second that. I just joined today. Been reading it a bit for the last week. Most of the last 30-45 day that I have been watching the legislature I've been on another forum. It was very informative but I have picked up some insight here that has rounded out my understanding of what is going on with HB910 and SB11.

Since I just popped up out of nowhere let me say that I live in Austin and I've had a CHL since it's early days.

Welcome. Hope you decide to stay.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

No, he cannot. It's already settled by SCOTUS. he has to be able to articulate a reason.......which is not that hard......but it has to be plausible.

I'm not that confident. If they KNEW they couldn't do it anyway, why were they so hysterically opposed to the amendment?

Ruark wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

No, he cannot. It's already settled by SCOTUS. he has to be able to articulate a reason.......which is not that hard......but it has to be plausible.

I'm not that confident. If they KNEW they couldn't do it anyway, why were they so hysterically opposed to the amendment?

The symbolism of it for the most part, I would say.

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

If this happened to me, I would be polite, but I would ask the officer if he had an articulable suspicion that I was either committing or about to commit a crime. If he said, yes, you are openly carrying a weapon, I would say, that is not a crime. What is your suspicion based upon? If he didn't have another articulable suspicion beside my carrying a weapon, I would ask him if I was free to go. If he said yes, I would thank him and walk away. If he said no, I would ask if I'm being detained. If he said yes, I would ask him to please contact his supervisor and ask him to come to our location. Then we would do the dance again. If they cuffed me, I would ask them what crime I am suspected of committing, etc., etc.

The reality is that if officers want to make up AS, it's not that hard. You were acting suspiciously. You hand was on your gun, etc., etc. The only defense you would have is video of the actions that led to the interaction. Without that, it's the officer's word against yours, and he wins.

I would go through all this, because I want to educate the officer, not because I'm obstreperous.

I would just like to thank Charles for all his input in this and keeping a cool head through all of this oc mess. I would go nuts reading all the articles on what has transpired,until I would read his input, and that would calm me back down and give more patience and understanding of the whole process. So kudos and thanks again.

Texas_Blaze wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

I would ask the officer politely if I am violating any laws, and if not, I would ask can I now leave? that is all I would say, over and over. Video will be good to have. We know it will happen. I think if it happens often, lawsuits will remedy the issue. If courts don't rule in the favor of the person carrying the gun, then there is the answer. Cops can do what you are hypothetically proposing.

I also like the suggestion I saw earlier that if he does insist you can't leave and must show your CHL; politely comply, get his name and badge number, and then the following day do a FOIA request on the report.

Every time it happens. It will be good fodder if the amendment comes up again.

Ruark wrote:

twomillenium wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip......

My understanding is that the law is the law whether or not it is repeatedly defined in each and every law passed. A person minding his own business and not breaking any laws should not be stopped by LEOs just to see if he is really not breaking the law.

What "should" not happen and what DOES happen are two different things. It appears that a HUGE number of LEOs out there believe that this amendment was the only thing that stood between them and investigatory stops. That's why they were so hysterical about it. Now that the amendment's been removed, I assume most of them will now think, "hey, it didn't pass, so it's OK to stop'em." And a lot of them will. Sure, many LEOs are decent people, but there are more than a few jerks out there wearing badges. Those guys are going to relish this legislative "green light."

That's my fear, that the introduction of the amendment, then it's withdrawal, especially given the number of arguments made that it would "tie policemen's hands"; that they will us that to say "Texas INTENDED to allow us to make stops such as these, that's why the amendment was removed".

baldeagle wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

If this happened to me, I would be polite, but I would ask the officer if he had an articulable suspicion that I was either committing or about to commit a crime. If he said, yes, you are openly carrying a weapon, I would say, that is not a crime. What is your suspicion based upon? If he didn't have another articulable suspicion beside my carrying a weapon, I would ask him if I was free to go. If he said yes, I would thank him and walk away. If he said no, I would ask if I'm being detained. If he said yes, I would ask him to please contact his supervisor and ask him to come to our location. Then we would do the dance again. If they cuffed me, I would ask them what crime I am suspected of committing, etc., etc.

The reality is that if officers want to make up AS, it's not that hard. You were acting suspiciously. You hand was on your gun, etc., etc. The only defense you would have is video of the actions that led to the interaction. Without that, it's the officer's word against yours, and he wins.

I would go through all this, because I want to educate the officer, not because I'm obstreperous.

by the time I got through all of that, I'd really need to pee .... and every door I walked up to in search of a john would end up having a 30.07 sign (actually, probably not around here). I doubt it would be an issue in my neck of the woods anyway, but I would just produce the plastic and go my merry way.


jd

If you're pulled over in your car you are required to show both drivers end CHL when he asks. Im thinking they'll carry that to OC in public. Myself, if an officer asks me if I have a CHL my response will "yes I do. I'm quite proud of it. Would you let me to see it?" Since it be a consensual stop and if he says "yes" I'm going to strike up a coversation also and show him pictures of my family and my dogs because I'm proud of them, too. I can feel filibuster...

The Annoyed Man wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

No, he cannot. It's already settled by SCOTUS. he has to be able to articulate a reason.......which is not that hard......but it has to be plausible.

The question is, will he. And he might. What then?

Ruark wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:So, I have a question now that it looks like we may get OC without the Huffines/Dutton.
I am walking down the street, pistol in a holster on my hip, I have a CHL and am Open Carrying, and just walking, minding my own business. Can a cop come up and ask for my license? Would I legally have to give it to him? Can I tell him no, that I have a CHL but don't wish to give it to him, that it's included in the 4th amendment? I know that the penal code says that I must produce my license if I am concealed carrying, just wondering how all this would go with OC.
Thanks.

No, he cannot. It's already settled by SCOTUS. he has to be able to articulate a reason.......which is not that hard......but it has to be plausible.

I'm not that confident. If they KNEW they couldn't do it anyway, why were they so hysterically opposed to the amendment?

If a Constitutionally dishonest cop is going to violate your 4th Amendment rights.......which is illegal for him to do......what makes anyone think that same cop won't defy the Dutton/Huffines Amendment to HB910? THAT is why causing a near meltdown on passing this bill by insisting on the Amendment while risking the bill was idiotic out of proportion to the benefit of the Amendment.

Out of pocket this evening in meetings, seems things are looking better.
what are the chances we will see a vote tommrow in either chamber.
The sooner the better to help prevent any marothon filibuster attempts.

Am I correct in assuming that the earliest a vote could be held would be 24 hours after the conference report was distributed in the House, so after 07:21pm tomorrow?

mulfjohn wrote:I would just like to thank Charles for all his input in this and keeping a cool head through all of this oc mess. I would go nuts reading all the articles on what has transpired,until I would read his input, and that would calm me back down and give more patience and understanding of the whole process. So kudos and thanks again.

This ^^^