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Keith B wrote:...Bottom line, the jury heard all of the evidence, determined that that for whatever reason Zimmerman was justified in defending himself in shooting Martin. End of story. Or at least it should be.

Yeah, right. The jury heard it in the OJ case too.

I agree with what valor and texasjoker stated. IMO, Zimmerman exercised poor judgement.

Someone stalks me through a neighborhood, and I might do the same as Martin, only I'll be carrying too.

sjfcontrol wrote:Those that object to the verdict are unwilling to admit that Treyvon decided to teach the "spooky <redacted> cracker" a lesson, and unexpectedly found himself outmatched...

Actually Zimmerman was "outmatched" and was getting his butt kicked fair and square. Oops! Z had a gun <eyes-rolling>.

This is just the type of escalation that good CHL training seeks to prevent. Maybe that training was lost on those who are championing Z's actions.

Bullitt wrote:

Keith B wrote:...Bottom line, the jury heard all of the evidence, determined that that for whatever reason Zimmerman was justified in defending himself in shooting Martin. End of story. Or at least it should be.

Yeah, right. The jury heard it in the OJ case too.

I agree with what valor and texasjoker stated. IMO, Zimmerman exercised poor judgement.

Someone stalks me through a neighborhood, and I might do the same as Martin, only I'll be carrying too.

And if you did - given same set of facts/circumstances - then YOU will be either dead, or on trial for murder or agg assault.

Bullitt wrote:

Keith B wrote:...Bottom line, the jury heard all of the evidence, determined that that for whatever reason Zimmerman was justified in defending himself in shooting Martin. End of story. Or at least it should be.

Yeah, right. The jury heard it in the OJ case too.

I agree with what valor and texasjoker stated. IMO, Zimmerman exercised poor judgement.

Someone stalks me through a neighborhood, and I might do the same as Martin, only I'll be carrying too.

If that happens, then you should go to jail. Further, if that is really your attitude, you should stop carrying. You'll give all of us CHL holders a bad name.

Having a CHL does not give you the right to attack someone because they're observing you. Even if they're following you. By attack, I mean both with your fists, and/or with your gun.

Bullitt wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Those that object to the verdict are unwilling to admit that Treyvon decided to teach the "spooky <redacted> cracker" a lesson, and unexpectedly found himself outmatched...

Actually Zimmerman was "outmatched" and was getting his butt kicked fair and square. Oops! Z had a gun <eyes-rolling>.

This is just the type of escalation that good CHL training seeks to prevent. Maybe that training was lost on those who are championing Z's actions.

"butt kicked fair and square" only occurs in a sanctioned sporting event.

On the street, kicking someone's butt without legal justification (regardless of fairness) is assault.

And I not only learned not to escalate, I teach others to do so. What we KNOW (for fact) that Zimmermam did was not a good decision, but it was not criminal. The only criminal escalation was when Martin turned a misunderstanding into physical violence.

1. A Latino dude sees a suspicious-looking black dude walking through the neighborhood and decides to follow him.
2. A black dude sees a suspicious-looking Latino dude following him through the neighborhood and decides to double-back on him, now following him.
3. Combat ensues, both pull guns and shoot in this Mexican standoff. Both dead.

Nobody cares. Why should they. It doesn't even make the news. Welcome to the neighborhood I grew up in.

Bullitt wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Those that object to the verdict are unwilling to admit that Treyvon decided to teach the "spooky <redacted> cracker" a lesson, and unexpectedly found himself outmatched...

Actually Zimmerman was "outmatched" and was getting his butt kicked fair and square. Oops! Z had a gun <eyes-rolling>.

This is just the type of escalation that good CHL training seeks to prevent. Maybe that training was lost on those who are championing Z's actions.

I don't know what class you attended, but mine never said anything like using your gun to stop a "but kickking" was "escalation".
Sorry man, there's no such thing as a "fair fight" on the street, someone is stronger, faster, or more willing to attack first. That doesn't make it "fair". Zimmerman didn't ask to get sucker punched. Martin acted "unfairly" when he did so. He thought he was going to administer an but kicking and walk away. He made a stupid mistake.

A-R wrote:...What we KNOW (for fact) that [what] Zimmermam did was not a good decision, but it was not criminal...

Could you say that a little louder? That has been my point from my earliest postings on this matter in the various threads. Yet we have those who say Z is such a great guys for being "invested" in his community.

A-R wrote:

Bullitt wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:Those that object to the verdict are unwilling to admit that Treyvon decided to teach the "spooky <redacted> cracker" a lesson, and unexpectedly found himself outmatched...

Actually Zimmerman was "outmatched" and was getting his butt kicked fair and square. Oops! Z had a gun <eyes-rolling>.

This is just the type of escalation that good CHL training seeks to prevent. Maybe that training was lost on those who are championing Z's actions.

"butt kicked fair and square" only occurs in a sanctioned sporting event.

On the street, kicking someone's butt without legal justification (regardless of fairness) is assault.

And I not only learned not to escalate, I teach others to do so. What we KNOW (for fact) that Zimmermam did was not a good decision, but it was not criminal. The only criminal escalation was when Martin turned a misunderstanding into physical violence.

Yup. been saying that all along. Dude put himself in a bad position and got his rear handed to him. I would have loved to been the fly on the wall to know what was said, ect when this went down.

http://freebeacon.com/irans-mullahs-dem ... r-trayvon/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mullahs in Iran support TM, say Z verdict unfair. There that settles it.


Maybe I grew up in old school times. When a guy goes down in a fight, you don't kick him in the head, pound his head on the pavement or straddle him and punch him in the face. Anyway I look at it that is assault, regardless of who threw the first punch or what someone said.

ScooterSissy wrote:...but mine never said anything like using your gun to stop a "but kickking" was "escalation"...

The butt-kicking wasn't the escalation of Zimmerman so far as we know, since Martin couldn't testify we don't even know if it was Martin's escalation. For all we know, Martin may have been defending himself with all he had available, his fists.

The escalation I am referring to is Zimmerman getting out of the car and continuing to be a participant in the events that would lead up to a physical confrontation. He had plenty of opportunity NOT to participate in the chain of events leading up to the physical confrontation. Had he received good CHL training, or internalized any good training that he did receive, he would have known this from the very start.

While I agree with the verdict of NOT GUILTY, as a CHL holder I am disgusted with Z's actions of escalation. He's no hero in my book, like some of you seem to opine.

texanjoker wrote:...but mine says GZ put himself in a bad position...

I agree with the earlier statement you made regarding GZ. That is my major point.

Bullitt wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:...but mine never said anything like using your gun to stop a "but kickking" was "escalation"...

The butt-kicking wasn't the escalation of Zimmerman so far as we know, since Martin couldn't testify, we don't even know if it was Martin's. For all we know, Martin may have been defending himself with all he had available, his fists.

The escalation I am referring to is Zimmerman getting out of the car and continuing to be a participant in the events that would lead up to a physical confrontation. He had plenty of opportunity NOT to participate in the chain of events leading up to the physical confrontation. Had he received good CHL training, or internalized any good training that he did receive, he would have known this from the very start.

While I agree with the verdict of NOT GUILTY, as a CHL holder I am disgusted with Z's actions of escalation. He's no hero in my book, like some of you seem to opine.

While getting out of the car is no crime, following at distance is no crime, calling non-emergency number is no crime, Physical Assault by TM that amounted to an aggravated assault when concrete pavement was used to inflict more head injuries is a crime. Assuming the GZ verbally provoked TM, said provocation does not justify physical assault by TM on GZ. Worse, TM had the opportunity to call 911 or walk back home, neither of which did happen. Rather TM selected to confront GZ and give him whopping and this where the use of deadly force was justified.

philip964 wrote:...Maybe I grew up in old school times. When a guy goes down in a fight, you don't kick him in the head, pound his head on the pavement or straddle him and punch him in the face.

How old are you? I'm in my 50's. And when the guy went down, you did kick him in the head, and you did pound his head in the pavement. Now if you are fighting your brother or one of your school friends, then no. How many fights have you had with complete strangers? Generally you are trying to disable the opponent so that he is no longer a threat to you.

Anyway I look at it that is assault, regardless of who threw the first punch or what someone said.

Actually, the first punch is assault. The second punch is self-defense.

Bullitt wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:...but mine never said anything like using your gun to stop a "but kickking" was "escalation"...

The butt-kicking wasn't the escalation of Zimmerman so far as we know, since Martin couldn't testify we don't even know if it was Martin's escalation. For all we know, Martin may have been defending himself with all he had available, his fists.

The escalation I am referring to is Zimmerman getting out of the car and continuing to be a participant in the events that would lead up to a physical confrontation. He had plenty of opportunity NOT to participate in the chain of events leading up to the physical confrontation. Had he received good CHL training, or internalized any good training that he did receive, he would have known this from the very start.

While I agree with the verdict of NOT GUILTY, as a CHL holder I am disgusted with Z's actions of escalation. He's no hero in my book, like some of you seem to opine.

Zimmerman was totally within his right to keep an eye on Martin. He can walk and follow a person all day long around a neighborhood and it is not escalating anything. He even lost Martin and was headed back to his car when Martin confronted him and started the whole confrontation and physical portion of the encounter. That was where the mistake was made and that was Martin's mistake. he should have just gone ahead and ran to the apratment where he was staying.

So, drop the fact that Zimmernam was the aggressor. If I see someone in my neighborhood that doesn't look right, I may follow them too. They can call the cops on ME as well and then we can let the police handle it. If they come at me and try to fight I will stand my ground if necessary.