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seamusTX wrote:I hate to throw a wet blanket, guys, but ...

Walking your dog is great exercise for both of you.

Walking your dog at 10:20 p.m. in a park is an unnecessary risk.

In my opinion, the defender in this case was very lucky to survive. Criminals do not always give you a chance to draw and take an aimed shot.

His name will eventually be put into the public record, and he may receive grief about the incident. People will know where lives that he may wish do not know.

Just to be clear, any honest citizen should be able to go anywhere at any time without fear of criminal attack. We don't live in Utopia, and we should plan accordingly.

- Jim

We could start calling it being "Joe Horn'd"

But then again he did kinds push himself into the spotlight...Just a little bit...

Oldgringo brought up some good stuff, and in my opinion there really is not a lot of differences here in this discussion so far...

Some could say that the ends justify the means, and that could be laughed at from here to Christmas...

Bottom line is someone here decided to walk their dog...Plain and simple...And some others made a bad decision to attack and commit a serious crime against the person who just wanterd to walk their dog...

The fact that they (dog walker) was armed and prepared, and was successful in defending themselves is a testament to all of our preparations, training, decisions and other factors we look at when we take our self-defense seriously enough to be armed...

Whether we agree or dissagree that the decision to increase the risk of attack by simply leashing up the dog and walking outside our "castle" walls is a moot point...Just my opinion...

I for one am concerned that there is this pre-disposition within our community of gun owners and CHL's that carrying in certain ways, and exposing ourselves to an increased risk of attack is consiedered somehow to be "cowboy" or "macho" to the point where that person is considered foolish for doing so...

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...Wise words from a wise man...

Do we ride out to face evil because we have a fatalistic attitude and poor outlook on the public outside our safe zones within the walls of our home??? I would venture to say every single one of us does not...

There is absolute merit to both sides of this issue, but I am of the opinion that I already know where my line in the sand is, and it is defined extremely clear and concise, and it does not waver...

I do not force anyone to even consider that anything I have ever said on this forum over the years to be gospel, and is the best thing to do...

All I know is that any one of you that I know personally, that someone would have to kill me (very unlikely ) to get to any one of you...And that if I made a bad decision, but you live to see another day...Hey, I'm ok with that...

How committed are you to human life, with the knowledge that you can take a life in the defense of another??? Can you live with that the rest of your life???

I bet there is a ton of you out there that know where I am coming from on this...

So I say...

Walk your dog anytime you feel it is necessary...Because cleaning up because you decided it is too dangerous to go outside is a position of weakness, and that it'll mean that the bad guys win...

And I hate to lose...

(rant mode off)

If I was to venture a guess it would be that the victim CHLer never EXPECTED to be robbed by four bangers as his dog marked hydrants but he was PREPARED.

Another guess would be that the neighborhood is no different from the vast majority of neighborhoods in the USof A.

I understand Jim's point in that we should minimize exposure to circumstances that place us in a higher risk of encounters.

This example makes me more determined to be prepared for when it is my turn.

Apart from the political climate and my inate distrust of the governmnet, My opinion is that the gangs will be the major issue we will have to deal with in the not to distant future.

Anygunanywhere

stevie_d_64 wrote:

seamusTX wrote:His name will eventually be put into the public record, and he may receive grief about the incident. People will know where lives that he may wish do not know.

We could start calling it being "Joe Horn'd"

Or James Waltoned, the guy that Rebbecca Aguilar lost her job after harassing.

However, I was thinking more along the lines of gang or family members looking for revenge. That doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

... there is this pre-disposition within our community of gun owners and CHL's that carrying in certain ways, and exposing ourselves to an increased risk of attack is consiedered somehow to be "cowboy" or "macho"

I did not say that.

It is a question of evaluating risks and acting to reduce your risk while still doing what you want or need to do.

I would venture to say that some members of this forum shop at this Randall's and not that Wal-Mart for similar reasons.

Walk your dog anytime you feel it is necessary...Because cleaning up because you decided it is too dangerous to go outside is a position of weakness,

Again, I said no such thing.

- Jim

glockrell wrote:He needs a bigger Dog!!!!!!

It wouldn't necessarily help; anything short of a mastiff will still have trouble carrying a shotgun in a saddle holster.

To reply to the back & forth's I agree with both sides. However I do not view walking your dog at 10 PM an unnecessary risk. Although, I'm not familiar with the neighborhood which would make a big diff in making that determination.

At any rate, what am I doing wrong? I can't seem to view the comments on the DMN website. At the end of the article I just see white space down until the footer. I click on the "comments" link at the top of the article and it tires to jump down to the vacant screen real estate. Have they removed comments?

atxgun wrote:At any rate, what am I doing wrong? I can't seem to view the comments on the DMN website. At the end of the article I just see white space down until the footer. I click on the "comments" link at the top of the article and it tires to jump down to the vacant screen real estate. Have they removed comments?

Atxgun, they're still there, but for some reason they don't come up at first.

I don't want to hijack this thread. It's just that some of the comments after this story are so entertaining (and exasperating), I felt I had to point them out for the amusement of forum members. I read these things in an effort to understand the anti gun/anti self defense mind, such as it is. Know the enemy and all that.

These first two entries by "Bubba Buster" seemed so absurd I thought it might be satire. But he/she generated considerable back-and-forth from people who took the comments seriously. The quality of Bubba's "logic" is certainly familiar:

"I'm not saying this young gentleman deserved to die, but he should have been stopped. The police should have arrested him before he had a chance to rob this man. He had committed other burglaries, so he must have left a trail. The police didn't do their job, so now, a would-be productive citizen is dead. Now, he can't go to college, or real estate school, or nothing. He didn't deserve this, but I agree, he got what was coming to him. He should have been nicer to people, and maybe this wouldn't have happened. Serves him right. And to the shooter, you should not have killed him. Maybe shooting him in the foot would have saved his life, but not in the head or heart, where he was probably shot. He probably suffered while he was dying, too. That's not right. But, he dies, so oh well. No one can change that now, except if they come up with some sort of miracle cure for fatal gunshots, then he might can be revived and live a life worthy of college or something. RIP."

There was a reply and a comment saying that the shooter had to shoot to kill, otherwise the robber could sue, To which Bubba Buster replied:

"Thanks for your response. Even if the guy dies, the family can still sue. So, it don't do much good to kill the dude. But, if you just hurt them enough so that they stop messing with you, then you can talk some sense into them until the cops show up. Then, they can throw him in the slammer and let him get beat up in jail. That way, you haven't murdered anyone and they still get their punishment. Too many people are out for blood these days. I don't get it. We should want everyone to live, even if they live with a shot foot or hand. They are still being able to go to college and get a good job. This dead guy will not only not be able to get a college degree, but he won't be able to have kids either, and if he does, they won't go to college since their dad is dead and they will live with that for the rest of their lives. If he was shot, he could've taken pain medicine or something for the gunshot and still functioned. Being dead, it's just sad. The NRA should ban all guns so that people can't use them, except for cops. They need them to shoot people if they try to run."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 0fade.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure where this fits in the above vis-a-vis 'warning shots', 'signal shots' or 'shoot to kill', but if you're the only witness...you are the only witness.

Get it?

I drew a gun on an Indian who broke into my house in Nevada in 1970 and held him for the sheriff
I've never shot anyone
I've never killed anyone
I''ve never been shot
I've never been sued for any of the above

I hope and pray I never have to, but I will shoot to kill in order to defend me and mine.

Got it?

One of the aspects overlooked here is that these thugs chose to attack a guy with a dog. Now maybe it was a little dog, but my experience with my dog, I think an Australian shepherd, which is a relatively large dog, is that people tend to avoid me when I walk him. The victim effectively had two weapons; he was openly "carrying" a dog and concealed carrying a gun. I would say he came prepared.

I often walk my dog at 10, even 11 at night if I have had meetings a church. My neighborhood is pretty safe, but apparently so was this park. Am I going to stop walking my dog after dark, no. Am I going to continue to be alert and always carry a gun. You betcha. I don't want to shoot anyone but that isn't going to stop me from walking my dog.

I think that "Bubba Buster" may have the words FUNCTIONALLY RETARDED on his bus pass.....what an idiot.

This reminds me of the oh-so entertaining interview Stephen Colbert did with Paul Helmke of the Brady Campaign earlier this year:

Colbert: What if I came at you right now with a knife?

Helmke: If you came at me right now with a knife? I'd, um, I'd try to trip you and get away from you.

Colbert: Okay, but I sidestepped your trip-up and I'm coming after you.

Helmke: I'd try to appeal to your rational side, and if you don't have a rational side, then I'd try to kick you in the, uh, where I can hurt you.

I'm still hoping that Paul Helmke writes a book on personal safety because he's so obviously one of the world's top experts in the field. Maybe he'll even start traveling and teaching courses!

KD5NRH wrote:

seamusTX wrote:The dog doesn't need a walk at that time of night. He may need to be taken down to the lamppost.

Well, technically, the dog doesn't need a walk at all. You can just take his tags off, toss his butt outside, and let animal control deal with him while you cower in your home at all times because you can't possibly risk going outside.

Or, you could just decide that since you're paying taxes on all those public places 24/7, you have a right to use them, and (maybe with the sudden revelation that criminals can strike anytime, day or night) simply be prepared to deal with whatever happens while you're using them, whenever you want to.

I refuse to cower and not live my life because of what *might* happen. And at the same time I refuse to be a victim, that's why I carry.

If you don't walk your dog at night the terrorists win.

Link to the the aforementioned Colbert interview

KD5NRH wrote:

glockrell wrote:He needs a bigger Dog!!!!!!

It wouldn't necessarily help; anything short of a mastiff will still have trouble carrying a shotgun in a saddle holster.

I am starting to lose patience with this "cower" business.

- Jim