TexasCHLforum.com

You might want to include in there PC 1.07, as this is a useful definition of "(42)  "Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor."

a report button would be ideal even for CHLers who don't know what a correct 51% or 30.06 sign looks like. We don't need people posting signs like this as no-carry establishment.

It looks like you might have used an old version of some laws. E.g., 9-32 still has the requirement to retreat and lacks the presumed justifications. 411.183 has licenses expiring every 4 years. And no MPA.

pbwalker wrote:a report button would be ideal even for CHLers who don't know what a correct 51% or 30.06 sign looks like. We don't need people posting signs like this as no-carry establishment.

How about they post a pic of the "sign" to a web service then extract the location data from the pic this would a good check so you click on the red dot it can show the sign and if the sign is not right have a report bad sign option.

I don't have an Android, so I don't know what you currently have or how it is arranged. If I wanted to use an app like that, I'd primarily use it in 2 situations: in a discussion with someone and want to show them facts or unsure about something and want to quickly look up the info.

I'd want it to have an easy front-end interface to quickly go to the kind of content I'm looking for. If I were having a conversation with someone and needed to look up info, what would I most likely be talking about and looking for? What comes to my mind is wanting to show people that CHL holders have to meet allllll these criteria to be approved and a deranged 19 year old college student can't meet that criteria, or perhaps wanting to show a spouse that this sign is not compliant because here's what's required, or perhaps wanting to assure a friend that it is legal to carry in church, or tell someone what it takes and how they can get a CHL. All the common talking points. For info I'd want to look up, it would be primarily the places that are marked on the map and perhaps nuances in the legal codes, but different people would have different things.

-CHL laws: For the laws section, I'd want to have a word search feature like others described above covering all laws that are at all relevant. Definition of school, definition of premises, other weapons offenses, etc. That's available online and searchable already. Not sure if you can tie in to that. This would all just be raw data, quoting the laws.

-CHL regulations: Regulations would include all the rules licensees, signs, etc would be bound by. Anything enforceable that relates to CHLs. The thought process of what would go here would be questions of "What's the rule about...?" type nature. This would pull information from numerous sources like the DPS handbook, laws, etc and put it into one place, listed thematically by the different types of regulations.

-CHL requirements: Requirements would cover the requirements to get a CHL, to renew a CHL, for valid signs, during police interactions, etc. These would be questions of a "What's it take to...?" or "What do I have to do when...?" type nature, again pulling thematic information from numerous sources.

-CHL resources: Resources would be any resources CHL holders might want to have at their fingertips. Links to this forum, the 3006 site, the DPS site's section on CHLs, a list of books, the link that lets you plan travel with a firearm, stuff like that. Anything you might want to cite or recommend to others.

-CHL maps: CHL map would be a google map integrated feature that allows users to tag any public location as 30.06 compliant, 30.06 noncompliant, no 30.06, 51% blue compliant, 51% blue noncompliant, 51% red, CHL off limits (courts, polling, etc), and disputed. It would hopefully also have a means of communication regarding the labels to settle disputes or note nuances. Integrating it with the 3006 website would be fantastic.

So with a flow like this, there'd be crossover between sections and numerous ways to get to the same end page. This is just thrown together off the top of my head with no research, just to show my general idea.

Screen 1: Home
Laws..................Regulations
Requirements....Maps
Resources..........Contact Us

Screen 2a: Laws (so I selected laws on the home page and now have a new screen)
Weapons...............License to Carry
Trespass by CHL...Justification
Immunity..............Firearms & Explosives
Search

Screen 2b: Regulations (This would be the screen if I selected Regulations on the home page)
30.06 signs...................CHL holders
51% locations.....,,,,,,,,,,.Schools
Hospitals & Churches....Alcohol
Traveling.......................Failure to Conceal
Banned..........................Other

Screen BI: Traveling (so I selected Traveling on the Regulations page)
MPA....................In town
School Zone........Walking to car
Out of State........Encounter w/ LEO

Screen Ii: Encounter with LEO (Obviously selected Encounter w/ LEO on the Traveling page, but I could have also come to this screen by goin through the Requirements page, for example)
Texas Law:
"Quote penal code here on requirement to identify as a witness"
"Quote penal code here on requirement to show CHL when asked for identification"
Etc

DPS handbook:
"Quote handbook here on what to do during an LEO encounter"

Frequently Asked Questions:
Can a police officer disarm me if I didn't do anything wrong?
The law says, "..."

Do I have to leave if a police officer tells me to leave, even if I did nothing wrong?
The law says, "..."

Do I have to show a police officer my CHL if I have a firearm in my vehicle but not on me?
The law says, "..."

A few recommendations:
While circumstances vary and you need to follow your local customs and instincts, CHL holders might find these recommendations worth considering.
-Laws vary from state to state on how and when you're required to inform a police officer that you are licensed to carry a concealed weapon or that you have a weapon on or near your person. If you're traveling out of state, please consult our Out of State feature before traveling.
-Opening your car door or getting out of your vehicle without having been asked to do so when a LEO is present could cause the officer to feel threatened.
-Clipping your current vehicle insurance and registration to your driver's side visor makes it easy to locate while keeping your hands clear and in the open should you encounter a LEO.
-The Such-and-Such organization recommends that you be familiar with the following information they published concerning detainments and search and seizure should a CHL holder have an encounter with a LEO. "It is always advisable to be polite, calm, even-tempered, and to comply with law enforcement directions on where to go or what to do (as long as you do not believe it is illegal or immoral). You do not have to give your consent even if you comply. Blah blah blah"

suthdj wrote:

pbwalker wrote:a report button would be ideal even for CHLers who don't know what a correct 51% or 30.06 sign looks like. We don't need people posting signs like this as no-carry establishment.

How about they post a pic of the "sign" to a web service then extract the location data from the pic this would a good check so you click on the red dot it can show the sign and if the sign is not right have a report bad sign option.

That would be great...heck, I'm even willing to offer up some storage space (with an Akamai backend) for users to upload pics to. Let me know if this is doable!

The Annoyed Man wrote:You might want to include in there PC 1.07, as this is a useful definition of "(42)  "Reasonable belief" means a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor."

I have found the Texas Penal Code - Section 1.07. Definitions, and I see some overlap which is currently in the CHL app under Texas Penal Code PC §9.01. DEFINITIONS. Were you suggesting just adding the Term Reasonable Belief or adding the entire PC 1.07?

Hoi Polloi wrote:I don't have an Android, so I don't know what you currently have or how it is arranged. If I wanted to use an app like that, I'd primarily use it in 2 situations: in a discussion with someone and want to show them facts or unsure about something and want to quickly look up the info.

I'd want it to have an easy front-end interface to quickly go to the kind of content I'm looking for. If I were having a conversation with someone and needed to look up info, what would I most likely be talking about and looking for? What comes to my mind is wanting to show people that CHL holders have to meet allllll these criteria to be approved and a deranged 19 year old college student can't meet that criteria, or perhaps wanting to show a spouse that this sign is not compliant because here's what's required, or perhaps wanting to assure a friend that it is legal to carry in church, or tell someone what it takes and how they can get a CHL. All the common talking points. For info I'd want to look up, it would be primarily the places that are marked on the map and perhaps nuances in the legal codes, but different people would have different things.

-CHL laws: For the laws section, I'd want to have a word search feature like others described above covering all laws that are at all relevant. Definition of school, definition of premises, other weapons offenses, etc. That's available online and searchable already. Not sure if you can tie in to that. This would all just be raw data, quoting the laws.

-CHL regulations: Regulations would include all the rules licensees, signs, etc would be bound by. Anything enforceable that relates to CHLs. The thought process of what would go here would be questions of "What's the rule about...?" type nature. This would pull information from numerous sources like the DPS handbook, laws, etc and put it into one place, listed thematically by the different types of regulations.

-CHL requirements: Requirements would cover the requirements to get a CHL, to renew a CHL, for valid signs, during police interactions, etc. These would be questions of a "What's it take to...?" or "What do I have to do when...?" type nature, again pulling thematic information from numerous sources.

-CHL resources: Resources would be any resources CHL holders might want to have at their fingertips. Links to this forum, the 3006 site, the DPS site's section on CHLs, a list of books, the link that lets you plan travel with a firearm, stuff like that. Anything you might want to cite or recommend to others.

-CHL maps: CHL map would be a google map integrated feature that allows users to tag any public location as 30.06 compliant, 30.06 noncompliant, no 30.06, 51% blue compliant, 51% blue noncompliant, 51% red, CHL off limits (courts, polling, etc), and disputed. It would hopefully also have a means of communication regarding the labels to settle disputes or note nuances. Integrating it with the 3006 website would be fantastic.

So with a flow like this, there'd be crossover between sections and numerous ways to get to the same end page. This is just thrown together off the top of my head with no research, just to show my general idea.

Screen 1: Home
Laws..................Regulations
Requirements....Maps
Resources..........Contact Us

Screen 2a: Laws (so I selected laws on the home page and now have a new screen)
Weapons...............License to Carry
Trespass by CHL...Justification
Immunity..............Firearms & Explosives
Search

Screen 2b: Regulations (This would be the screen if I selected Regulations on the home page)
30.06 signs...................CHL holders
51% locations.....,,,,,,,,,,.Schools
Hospitals & Churches....Alcohol
Traveling.......................Failure to Conceal
Banned..........................Other

Screen BI: Traveling (so I selected Traveling on the Regulations page)
MPA....................In town
School Zone........Walking to car
Out of State........Encounter w/ LEO

Screen Ii: Encounter with LEO (Obviously selected Encounter w/ LEO on the Traveling page, but I could have also come to this screen by goin through the Requirements page, for example)
Texas Law:
"Quote penal code here on requirement to identify as a witness"
"Quote penal code here on requirement to show CHL when asked for identification"
Etc

DPS handbook:
"Quote handbook here on what to do during an LEO encounter"

Frequently Asked Questions:
Can a police officer disarm me if I didn't do anything wrong?
The law says, "..."

Do I have to leave if a police officer tells me to leave, even if I did nothing wrong?
The law says, "..."

Do I have to show a police officer my CHL if I have a firearm in my vehicle but not on me?
The law says, "..."

A few recommendations:
While circumstances vary and you need to follow your local customs and instincts, CHL holders might find these recommendations worth considering.
-Laws vary from state to state on how and when you're required to inform a police officer that you are licensed to carry a concealed weapon or that you have a weapon on or near your person. If you're traveling out of state, please consult our Out of State feature before traveling.
-Opening your car door or getting out of your vehicle without having been asked to do so when a LEO is present could cause the officer to feel threatened.
-Clipping your current vehicle insurance and registration to your driver's side visor makes it easy to locate while keeping your hands clear and in the open should you encounter a LEO.
-The Such-and-Such organization recommends that you be familiar with the following information they published concerning detainments and search and seizure should a CHL holder have an encounter with a LEO. "It is always advisable to be polite, calm, even-tempered, and to comply with law enforcement directions on where to go or what to do (as long as you do not believe it is illegal or immoral). You do not have to give your consent even if you comply. Blah blah blah"

Now that's feedback! I appreciate the time you've taken to help this cause!

Currently the app has a menu system that models directly after the CHL handbook. So, the menu's look like:

Main (_root) menu:
- Laws Related to the Carrying of a Concealed Handgun in Texas
- Selected Deadly Force Satutes
- DPS Rules Related to the Carrying of a Concealed Handgun in Texas
- FAQ
- Places you CANNOT carry (not in handbook, but lists sections of handbook that are related)
- References (refers to txdps sites and handbook)

When you click on one of the main sections above (besides References) you get another menu listing every item under the main as in the Table of Contents in the handbook. Clicking on those takes you to the text page where you can read the actual content. So, content is 2 clicks deep into the app, and easily (as easy as the handbook is) found.

The reasons why I modeled directly after the handbook is if I created my own topics then I'd have to worry about including all information regarding it and I want to be as less misleading as I can, since we're talking about serious laws that, if misunderstood, can land people in serious trouble. So, as long as I am relaying the handbook, I feel safe. If I cut it up, I am bound to maintain the informational integrity of whatever I move around and that can be quite a chore, since the handbook itself lists information doubly in cases since it has Texas laws and DPS rules. The closest I've done to this in the app is the section titled: "Places you Cannot Carry", since I feel this is one main topic that a lot of people ask about and refer to regularly, specially chl noobs! ;) Lastly, when updates to laws occure it'll be easier to single them out and replace that information if it is intact.

Now, there is a beefy FAQ in there, as you listed, which is from the handbook, but I am willing to add more or sort this in a more effective manner if there is one. As of now it is a direct copy.

Word Search: I like the sound of this feature. What I am envisioning is a search feature found in a menu when you click your phone's menu button at any time. Clicking search would bring up a window with a field where you type in your search querie(s) and submit. The app would search through the information and return a list of the sections where your query was found. Searching for things like "tresspass", or "suspension", etc would bring up those sections.

Pictures: You mentioned pictures of signs and I am debating on weather I want to add just a pictures section with references to where their explanatin could be found or if I want to include them into the manual content where they are mentioned / described. Feel free to comment on this one (anyone).

The Annoyed Man wrote:I just installed it on my HTC Incredible. Works as advertised. Good job!

Awesome, I'm glad to hear it! Don't forget to rate it! The more stars the better!

bzo311 wrote:For those interested, a beta version is up if you have an Android. A "CHL" search on the market will pull it up.

I will be updating it regularly, adding some convenience features and responding to any feedback via these forums and comments in the market.

Thanks for the ideas many have provided, I will be looking into everything that deems reasonable.

Thank you for your efforts to provide this information in an handy form to the Texas CHL community. I've downloaded your app and it looks great.

Thanks for the app. I just downloaded it.

In the section "Places you cannot carry" I found the following problems:
Typographical error:
"On the premises of a hospital...liTEXAS cense...."

In that section you omitted the exception to hospitals, churches, and amusemet parks that requires them to post a 30.06 sign in order to be off limits. It is so frequently overlooked and misunderstood, that I think it essential to include the requirement per PC 46.035 paragraph i.

Having "next section"at the bottom of each page would be helpful, too.

Thanks for the time and effort to do this!

MasterOfNone wrote:It looks like you might have used an old version of some laws. E.g., 9-32 still has the requirement to retreat and lacks the presumed justifications. 411.183 has licenses expiring every 4 years. And no MPA.

Someone tell me I'm not crazy. Can someone verify or refute this?

Would like to see this for the Iphone.

MasterOfNone:

You are right. The app contains PC 9.32(2) "if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated...."


I'm guessing that the app creator got hold of an old version of the handbook. Unfortunately, old versions are still available, even on the DPS Web site (e.g, when I did a Yahoo search for Texas concealed handgun laws, the first link took me to a PDF file at the DPS from 2001-2002).

The most current version of the handbook is at:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf
and if that was not used to create the app, then it needs to be corrected.