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Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:40 am
by lbuehler325
texanjoker wrote:
suthdj wrote:
gigag04 wrote:Harassment of a public servant in tx is a felony 3.

Example would be spitting on a police officer.
Spitting can carry many a nasty germs so that I can understand being a crime, but not a felony unless maybe disease is present. How do they define harassment?
Go have some suspect spit in your face and then come back and post about your experience. It is one of the most disgusting things I have had to deal with, on more then one occasion. It requires an ER visit, medications, follow up HIV testing, ect.
I agree. The spit could have some very negative consequences. So, why is it only a felony if done to a public official, like a LEO, judge, or politician, and not a felony if done to a store clerk, of other citizen? I'll go back to my original comment. No group deserves special rights beyond that of the citizenry. Either we are protected equally, or we are subjects.

NY also passed an additional law to their gun ban to exempt law enforcement and retired law enforcement from its ridiculous restrictions. Hopefully, the LEO community sees through that pandering and upholds their oath. I know that the state AG said he would not prosecute any violators of Cuomo's new ban that would have not been violating law prior to the ban. Kudos to him.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:45 am
by lbuehler325
gigag04 wrote:The worst time I got spit on it was a loogie right on the eyeball from a guy handcuffed (so I couldn't really fight with him).

Debate the charges all you want but he went for everything we had, including jaywalking, and walking with traffic, in addition to all the more serious charges.


For those asking about yelling, not a felony here. The harassment statute gets used a lot from inmates throwing feces at jailers.
Word is that it is a popular charge used by the APD. I know of one example where the LEO straight fabricated the charge. Hopefully, abuse of such regulations are rare.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:13 pm
by LSUTiger
This law is simply and end run around your civil rights and other laws meant to protect the citizenry (if there are any left in NY). If you assert your rights in anyway shape or form and do not immediately comply with any unlawful demands you will "annoy" the police and be hauled off as a felon.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:17 pm
by Abraham
I've seen instances (mostly from watching episodes of "Cops") where some sidewalk lawyer decided he didn't have to obey a lawful order and ignored the LEO. Then, when suddenly finding himself eating cement with the cuffs going on, immediately started acting self-righteous about knowing (Uh-huh) his rights and how it was gonna be the cops job and hey, he pays the cops salary with his taxes, blah, blah, blah...

Or, some other sidewalk lawyer decides he's going to defend the rights of someone being arrested and is warned to not interfere and won't stop interfering. I love it when these guys get to go for the ride too!

So, there are times when annoying the police does happen and the annoyer, if you will, should be marched off to jail.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:23 pm
by VoiceofReason
texanjoker wrote:
suthdj wrote:
gigag04 wrote:Harassment of a public servant in tx is a felony 3.

Example would be spitting on a police officer.
Spitting can carry many a nasty germs so that I can understand being a crime, but not a felony unless maybe disease is present. How do they define harassment?
Go have some suspect spit in your face and then come back and post about your experience. It is one of the most disgusting things I have had to deal with, on more then one occasion. It requires an ER visit, medications, follow up HIV testing, ect.
There are laws already on the books that would cover that. This law is overly broad and will create more resentment toward LE and the government.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:32 pm
by EEllis
gthaustex wrote:Seems like the way it is worded, it is far too vague and ripe for abuse....
Only because you haven't seen the whole thing which reads much different and wouldn't be a big issue.

Here is the proposed new law

Section 1. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 240.33 to read as follows:
S 240.33 AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER.
A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.
AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.

http://newyork.onpolitix.com/news/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; 46747/bill-would-make-annoying-a-cop-a-crime

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:46 pm
by RottenApple
EEllis wrote:
gthaustex wrote:Seems like the way it is worded, it is far too vague and ripe for abuse....
Only because you haven't seen the whole thing which reads much different and wouldn't be a big issue.

Here is the proposed new law

Section 1. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 240.33 to read as follows:
S 240.33 AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER.
A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.
AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.

http://newyork.onpolitix.com/news/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; 46747/bill-would-make-annoying-a-cop-a-crime
Sorry, but that comma right there separates the "harass, annoy, threaten, or alarm" from "strikes, shoves, kicks, or...." In this statement. It is not descriptive of what harass, annoy, etc means. This bill is, as stated, exceptionally vague. They need to include definitions of what "harass, annoy, threaten, or alarm" mean.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:50 pm
by RX8er
EEllis wrote: .......which reads much different and wouldn't be a big issue.
How do you figure? I guess I am reading it different than you are.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:14 am
by Dadtodabone
VMI77 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:They say that best course of action with a bad law is to vigorously enforce it. I say "go for it."

If you peel back the onion in places like NYC and Chicago, a significant part of problem seems to be that those responsible for felonies don't get prosecuted for them. The jails are already full and often overcrowded so the courts allow new offenders to plea bargain down to probation and they are put back onto the street.

I think the suspects who would violate the "annoy the police" parameters like spitting on them will be part of the already burgeoning group without a basic respect for the rule of law. Any kind of mass enforcement is going to further crowd the jails and further the public outcry against the PD and the politicians who are abusing it.

Am I worried that this law will increase police abuse? Not in the least. Cuomo, Bloomberg and their minions already have taken government overreach through the PD to unforgivable levels. This law isn't going to make that worse than it already is.

The good people of NY need to suffer under the politicians that they continue to elect as much as possible. It is unfortunate that a minority of New Yorkers feel more like Texans do and they will have to suffer, too. The more that this kind of stuff goes on, the quicker that the Cuomo regime will fall of its own weight just like the government of Detroit did. It is the same substance, just in different degrees of corruption.
Like gun control laws, this law is not targeting those without respect for the law --quite the opposite. The main target of this law is going to be people who want the police to obey the law, and either question them when they break it, or record them doing it on video. Taking video of the police in action will, of course, annoy those officers who aren't following the law, and those are the people this law is targeting.
:iagree: This is simply an attempt to intimidate the citizenry. I do doubt that an attempt to prosecute an "annoying" photographer who was otherwise not impeding the officers in the performance of their duty would gain much traction, in spite of this travesty's passage.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:48 am
by Excaliber
RottenApple wrote:
EEllis wrote:
gthaustex wrote:Seems like the way it is worded, it is far too vague and ripe for abuse....
Only because you haven't seen the whole thing which reads much different and wouldn't be a big issue.

Here is the proposed new law

Section 1. The penal law is amended by adding a new section 240.33 to read as follows:
S 240.33 AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER.
A PERSON IS GUILTY OF AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER WHEN, WITH THE INTENT TO HARASS, ANNOY, THREATEN OR ALARM A PERSON WHOM HE OR SHE KNOWS OR REASONABLY SHOULD KNOW TO BE A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER ENGAGED IN THE COURSE OF PERFORMING HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES, HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT.
AGGRAVATED HARASSMENT OF A POLICE OFFICER OR PEACE OFFICER IS A CLASS E FELONY.

http://newyork.onpolitix.com/news/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; 46747/bill-would-make-annoying-a-cop-a-crime
Sorry, but that comma right there separates the "harass, annoy, threaten, or alarm" from "strikes, shoves, kicks, or...." In this statement. It is not descriptive of what harass, annoy, etc means. This bill is, as stated, exceptionally vague. They need to include definitions of what "harass, annoy, threaten, or alarm" mean.
The text of the law is not nearly as bad as the headlines. All that it does is makes it a felony to do to an on duty police officer what is an A misdemeanor to do to any person.

Up until this time, shoving, pushing, or kicking a police officer was only a misdemeanor unless a documented injury resulted, at which time it became an assault. Here is the text of the relevant harassment statutes with the multiple other ways of committing the offense (e.g. making harassing telephone calls) omitted for clarity. You can find the full text here.

S 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with
intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:
1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other
person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or
2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or
3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts
which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no
legitimate purpose.
Subdivisions two and three of this section shall not apply to
activities regulated by the national labor relations act, as amended,
the railway labor act, as amended, or the federal employment labor
management act, as amended.
Harassment in the second degree is a violation. (note: the equivalent of a speeding ticket in TX)

S 240.30 Aggravated harassment in the second degree.
A person is guilty of aggravated harassment in the second degree when,
with intent to harass, annoy, threaten or alarm another person, he or
she:.......
3. Strikes, shoves, kicks, or otherwise subjects another person to
physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same because of a
belief or perception regarding such person`s race, color, national
origin, ancestry, gender, religion, religious practice, age, disability
or sexual orientation, regardless of whether the belief or perception is
correct;
Aggravated harassment in the second degree is a Class A Misdemeanor.

Incidentally, causing jail officials to come in contact with bodily fluids or excrement is also a felony in NY.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:50 am
by mojo84
I am pretty sure I've "annoyed" gigag04, texanjoker and srothstein on occasion. If they were on duty at the time, it appears I would have committed a felony based on the proposed NY bill if that bill were the law in Texas.

Pretty scary if you ask me.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:46 am
by The Annoyed Man
lrpettit wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:What chasfm11 said....with one exception..... the "good people" of NY elected these morons. They're not "good" people. They're stupid people, and stupidity should be painful. That's the only way that stupid people ever grow out of their stupidity. If there are no consequences for their stupidity, they never learn. It's the human condition.
That's like saying you deserve all the crap the current federal government is throwing at you because YOU elected them. There are still plenty of good people in New York that didn't vote for the pieces of crap currently in power and they don't deserve their current leadership anymore than we deserve Obama's leadership (or lack thereof). Same problem in Illinois where there are a lot of good people subjected to criminals from Chicago who they didn't vote for. I suspect the same problem exists in CA.

Don't blame a whole state/country because 51% of the people in that state/country are stupid. We need to find ways to help the oppressed. :patriot:
Yeah....well I came here from California, so I understand perhaps better than most here in Texas what it means to be a right thinking person in a state where the majority are wrong thinking. And by the way, it is WAY more than a 51% majority:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_o ... _geography
The enrollment of the various parties in New York State is as follows, according to the New York State Board of Elections annual report of 2006:
  • Democratic: 5,507,928 (59.1%)
  • Republican: 3,130,122 (33.6%)
  • Independence: 345,957 (3.7%)
  • Conservative: 154,202 (1.7%)
  • Liberal: 66,672 (0.7%)
  • Right to Life: 40,278 (0.4%)
  • Green: 35,900 (0.4%)
  • Working Families: 34,289 (0.4%)
  • Libertarian: 1,061 (0.01%)[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_o ... al_parties[/quote]
Of the 17,304,091 California voters registered for the November 4, 2008, general election:[29]
  • 44.4% were Democrats
  • 31.3% were Republicans
  • 4.4% were affiliated with other political parties
  • 19.9% were unaffiliated ("Decline to State" or "No Party Preference") voters
[/list]
And BOTH states have gotten worse since 2006 and 2008 respectively.

There is NOTHING that can save California, or New York, or any of the other socialist cesspools that have grown to dominate these states, EXCEPT on thing.....and that is, as hard as it may be, for the decent people to leave and come to bastions of liberty like Texas. Here is why: The FASTEST way for those states to revert to common sense is for all people who possess it to leave the state so that their moderating influence is removed. That moderating influence is not sufficient to reverse the trend toward collapse; it can only slow it down. So when they are gone, the trend toward collapse is accelerated, and collapse is the ONLY thing that will force the socialists to mend their ways. When they can no longer blame their problems on the conservatives in their states, they only have themselves and their own failures to look at. THEN they will grudgingly change. Not before.

As someone who paid the price of uprooting my family to come to Texas, I have earned the right to comment on the prescription for change. Believe me, the stupid majority will never listen to conservatives/libertarians from Texas or any other state. They have to be SELF-confronted in order to change. No junkie or drunk ever sought sobriety purely on the comments of others. They had to hit their personal bottom in order to reform. Ditto the states of California and New York. The best thing that can happen to them is to accelerate the downhill slide by "decent" people leaving.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:56 am
by DEB
TAM as always your thoughts are very well stated. But I sure hope we don't become a Colorado with all of those "Enlightened" Liberals leaving those areas that they have messed up. (This is not directed at TAM and others of like mind who did come here, but mostly at those like the Head L.E. of Austin). Everytime I get into a conversation about firearms and religion with others, I can pretty much quickly figure out if they are from Texas or not. Even though they identify with conservatism, they always have some sort of nanny state requirement. Some examples being, "Have you seen how some of these soldiers act and you want to allow them full access to guns?" (we did in Iraq/Afghanistan), "Everyone who owns and especially carries a gun should have mandated special training first" (They never can tell me what that training should be, especially as soldiers apparently don't reach that invisible mark). Someone openly carrying a legal firearm should be stopped, handcuffed and asked what their business is, (even though it is legal to do so), to there shouldn't be any prayers at any school function, (while it is perfectly okay to mandate those same schools to fully accept and push other practices). So, although they fully identify themselves with conservatism; to those Texans I was raised with and identify with, their's are fully a leftist leaning to controlling rights. Kind of like those British Conservatives who are fully left of that middle ideological line and whose practices and thoughts would be absolutely Socialist in nature to most of us who are conservatives here. I read Calguns just to keep in touch with those who are going through the full removal of their rights. Some of the comments there, from so-called gun rights activists shock and dismay me, of what they are willing to give up just to keep a small part of what they once had. Luckily I am a Texan and was able to find employment here, so I am not the tip of the spear as it were. But, no more compromise with those who desire my rights for anyone's perception of safety or for anything else. Freedom isn't free and there will always be excesses from those who use those same freedoms to further their illegal agendas. All of these antigun acts begin and end with folks giving up their freedoms for a politician's smokescreen of safety. :tiphat:

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:14 pm
by The Annoyed Man
DEB wrote:TAM as always your thoughts are very well stated. But I sure hope we don't become a Colorado with all of those "Enlightened" Liberals leaving those areas that they have messed up. (This is not directed at TAM and others of like mind who did come here, but mostly at those like the Head L.E. of Austin).
Your comments remind me of an article I saw this morning (http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=4448 ... ment-86683) about a Colorado politician who is now facing a recall because his district is very conservative, but he got behind all the gun-control nonsense and really pushed it hard. In the comments section, most of the comments were along the lines of "Heck Yeah! Fire his butt NOW!" But there was one commenter who said:
Colorado may have passed strict gun laws… even though the 2nd amendment was written when muskets were cutting edge and supermarkets weren’t in existence.. and U.S. Military drones, Jets, and helicopters weren’t even a dream…. But they are also the first US state to legalize recreational use of Marijuana.. so choose you battle Libertarians. We can beat Tyranny without guns.
REALLY? Libertarians have to choose between guns or pot, and you can defeat tyranny with pot? It would be a laughable notion if it weren't so seriously deficient. The fact that most libertarians think the "war on drugs" is a proven waste of money does not mean that they are all pro-marijuana, or that they believe that getting ripped on weed will defeat tyranny. Nor do most libertarians believe that weed is more important than the Bill of Rights, nor do they believe that the politics of liberty is a binary choice between weed or guns.

The person who wrote that comment is neither a libertarian, nor a believer in the protections of the Constitution. He's just another liberal who sets up a strawman and then demands that we choose his position. He's a feckless idiot, probably because he's high all the time. I don't even know how that guy got on CTD's emailing list. The majority of the posts were right on, but there were a couple of others where the respondent was either kookoo or wrong.

Re: Soon to be - Felony if You Annoy the Police in NY

Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:17 pm
by EEllis
RX8er wrote:
EEllis wrote: .......which reads much different and wouldn't be a big issue.
How do you figure? I guess I am reading it different than you are.
Because it's not just annoy a cop it's that " HE OR SHE STRIKES, SHOVES, KICKS OR OTHERWISE SUBJECTS SUCH PERSON TO PHYSICAL CONTACT" With the intent to harass.