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MechAg94 wrote:It was $6000 in cash. Nothing to sneeze at, but hardly what I would call drug dealer money unless just small time.

Sounds like they were in the house immediately. Another reason to work on beefing up doors and windows to provide some warning.

That much cash on hand is just prudent. Everyone should have a minimum of a month's salary on hand in cash for emergencies. Especially these days when there is no benefit to keeping cash in a bank. Even more would be better.

philip964 wrote: First SWAT raided drug dealers in the middle of the night and I wasn't a drug dealer, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided men with child porn in the middle of the night. I wasn't a pornographer, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided families with copyright violations on their computers in the middle of the night, stripping the wife of her towel concealing her nakedness. My wife sleeps in a nightgown, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided a person who had an enemy who called 911 and reported a bomb. I didn't care as I had no enemies. "Then they came for me. There was no one left to speak for me"

Then some criminals pretended to be Swat and someone posted made up and irrelevant quotes.

jmra wrote:That is why these type of raids by police have to stop. They simply aren't necessary and put both LEO and innocent lives at risk. There are simply better ways.

And another reason to have accountability via body cameras, especially if these activities are pre-planned. They keep everyone on their best behavior and make it easier not to call into question the behavior of good police officers.

I'm actually in agreement with the need to revamp how warrants are served. The no-knock is a good way to get cops, perps, and innocents killed unnecessarily. The wrong address thing is also worrisome; it's happened to us, and I'm -in- law enforcement. Wife called me, told me two deputies arrived, visibly nervous, and asked who called 911. My wife told them "no one," so they asked "is this 12345 Blue street?" only to be met with "No, this is 6789 Red street." Someone, somewhere, had called in a fairly worrisome 911 call, gave an address, and the cops not only went to the wrong house, but the wrong street!

I'm just glad they didn't try knocking down the door to "rescue" whoever called 911. There would have been shots exchanged between my wife and the deputies, and I'd probably be a widower, and some other cop's wife would be a widow.

VMI77 wrote:

MechAg94 wrote:It was $6000 in cash. Nothing to sneeze at, but hardly what I would call drug dealer money unless just small time.

Sounds like they were in the house immediately. Another reason to work on beefing up doors and windows to provide some warning.

That much cash on hand is just prudent. Everyone should have a minimum of a month's salary on hand in cash for emergencies. Especially these days when there is no benefit to keeping cash in a bank. Even more would be better.

This. And don't come a lookin' fer my house!

JSThane wrote:I'm actually in agreement with the need to revamp how warrants are served. The no-knock is a good way to get cops, perps, and innocents killed unnecessarily. The wrong address thing is also worrisome; it's happened to us, and I'm -in- law enforcement. Wife called me, told me two deputies arrived, visibly nervous, and asked who called 911. My wife told them "no one," so they asked "is this 12345 Blue street?" only to be met with "No, this is 6789 Red street." Someone, somewhere, had called in a fairly worrisome 911 call, gave an address, and the cops not only went to the wrong house, but the wrong street!

I'm just glad they didn't try knocking down the door to "rescue" whoever called 911. There would have been shots exchanged between my wife and the deputies, and I'd probably be a widower, and some other cop's wife would be a widow.

I think it goes much deeper than just how warrants are served. I think it starts with having real judicial overview instead of rubber stamping warrants. I would also like to see real research done into the various methods and the different results achieved so we have a better understanding of the performance of the different methods in different circumstances. I know on here it's basically taken for granted that some tactics are always wrong but I personally would want more evidence than someone saying "everyone knows it and you're just an apologist for not acknowledging it" which is the majority of the discussion around here. Heck warrant service is just the tip of the iceberg. Dents seem to be heading in the right direction but we still have to many things that are done because that is just the way it's done not because it's right or even works the best.

EEllis wrote:

philip964 wrote: First SWAT raided drug dealers in the middle of the night and I wasn't a drug dealer, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided men with child porn in the middle of the night. I wasn't a pornographer, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided families with copyright violations on their computers in the middle of the night, stripping the wife of her towel concealing her nakedness. My wife sleeps in a nightgown, so I didn't care. Then SWAT raided a person who had an enemy who called 911 and reported a bomb. I didn't care as I had no enemies. "Then they came for me. There was no one left to speak for me"

Then some criminals pretended to be Swat and someone posted made up and irrelevant quotes.

Forgot two, Then SWAT raided a family to make an arrest. Threw a stun grenade into a crib blowing a babies face off. I did not care, because I did not have a baby at home.

Then SWAT raided a family to look for drugs that were not there. Shot and killed the former Marine homeowner as he came down the hallway with his AR 15 thinking it was a home invasion. I did not care, because I don't own an AR-15 and I was never a Marine and never served in Iraq.

Regarding your comment of Made up:

Wife stripped (apparently wrong house, but no one is talking on the DHS side) http://www.tpnn.com/2014/06/23/outrageo ... planation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prank call to 911 (felt the officers and the suspect both actually handled this pretty well, officers fingers were pointed) http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014 ... on-twitch/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; BTW this happened last week, all the gamers are now upset and joining the Tea Party.

Baby (caution graphic) http://thefreethoughtproject.com/baby-c ... rown-crib/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marine (RIP) http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2 ... okes-rage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"irrelevant quotes", yes your exactly right, these quotes are irrelevant. I have nothing to worry about.

philip964 wrote:
"irrelevant quotes", yes your exactly right, these quotes are irrelevant. I have nothing to worry about.

If those made up, because you are not quoting anyone but trying to make your statements in the same structure of a famous quote, quotes are in reference to the original story or anything I posted then yes they are irrelevant. The original story is about a family being robbed by fake cops. My statements have been about the risk of such an event and thus your posts in response to me are irrelevant. I'm not responding to this type of post anymore.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

MechAg94 wrote:It was $6000 in cash. Nothing to sneeze at, but hardly what I would call drug dealer money unless just small time.

Sounds like they were in the house immediately. Another reason to work on beefing up doors and windows to provide some warning.

That much cash on hand is just prudent. Everyone should have a minimum of a month's salary on hand in cash for emergencies. Especially these days when there is no benefit to keeping cash in a bank. Even more would be better.

This. And don't come a lookin' fer my house!

Did an address search for "Annoyed Man, The" and turned up empty handed. Not in White Pages, Google Maps, People Finder, Ted Nugent Fan Club Membership, Overdue Library Book's Most Wanted List, National Odd Shoe Exchange, Coalition of Professional Mime Instructors...... nothing..... nada.....ZIP!.

I did find one odd reference for The Annoyed Man residing in the Zul'Farrak village in the World of Warcraft online game but other than that sir you are officially "off the grid". You could safely leave your cash in your cookie jar tonight and sleep like a baby.

esxmarkc wrote: You could safely leave your cash in your cookie jar tonight and sleep like a baby.

LOL

EEllis wrote:The original story is about a family being robbed by fake cops. My statements have been about the risk of such an event and thus your posts in response to me are irrelevant..

The point of my original post was not simply a family getting robbed. The point was a family experiencing the door crashing in, multiple armed people rushing in and screaming "police", and the family faced with a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" conundrum. The point is the prevalence of ill advised and poorly managed SWAT raids is what makes this form of robbery even plausible because there are those split second moments when any homeowner is faced with a decision to defend himself or not, and the consequences of guessing wrong are life altering.

Saying the original story is about a robbery and has nothing to do with SWAT raids is missing the ENTIRE point. Or is it willful blindness?

Not sure about the description of these guys being 'fake' cops.

Maybe they were simply 'undocumented'.

StewNTexas wrote:Not sure about the description of these guys being 'fake' cops.

Maybe they were simply 'undocumented'.

Jumping Frog wrote:

EEllis wrote:The original story is about a family being robbed by fake cops. My statements have been about the risk of such an event and thus your posts in response to me are irrelevant..

The point of my original post was not simply a family getting robbed. The point was a family experiencing the door crashing in, multiple armed people rushing in and screaming "police", and the family faced with a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" conundrum. The point is the prevalence of ill advised and poorly managed SWAT raids is what makes this form of robbery even plausible because there are those split second moments when any homeowner is faced with a decision to defend himself or not, and the consequences of guessing wrong are life altering.

Saying the original story is about a robbery and has nothing to do with SWAT raids is missing the ENTIRE point. Or is it willful blindness?

Well unwillingness to go down the rabbit whole. There is little point to that conversation on here unless it's just to hear the same statements repeated again and again. I would also challenge your statements as assuming as facts things that may not be. If you wanted to state something why didn't you? I posit that there wasn't a direct connection so you laid it out "hoping" people would make that same leap. So be it some did. I didn't and I didn't comment on that. First and foremost, as I said, I'm done going down that rabbit hole. People don't want discussion, they don't bother to understand any viewpoints other than their own, they get insulting and nasty which has already happened in some small degree here on this thread where I have refused to go into that discussion.

You also set it up where the "default" facts are are not facts at all but beliefs you hold. As an example, while you state that the "prevalence" makes this possible that just isn't so. It was 2 guys kicking a door calling themselves cops. If there were no swat raids this could happen and I bet things like this happened before there were swat teams at all so there is one statement that is obviously untrue. Such crime has probably happened as long as there have been police. If you try and set up a discussion where the basic "Facts" are in question how do you have a real debate or discussion?

Well, if you look at the very first post in the thread, I think it is apparent that my viewpoint was this kind of event is a homeowners nightmare, not knowing if it is legitimate police or masquerading thugs.

You obviously have your viewpoint.