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1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

casp625 wrote:Good news is if I struggle with the male APFT (Army physical fitness test) I can at least ace the female standards - they can no longer discriminate! ;)

My coworkers and I were saying this same thing. All of us are either retired Military or currently serving. Shoot max the APFT without having to push too hard, grow long hair, and have a higher body fat ratio allowance. One could be CSM in 15 years, just by identifying as a female and super maxing the APFT. Even get a better place to sleep and have guaranteed showers during deployments. Probable get place on a higher plane for schools and promotion as you now are a true minority as a Transgender. Can't see a downside. Just have to put up with being teased, for a time and probably won't have any friends, at least at first.

Edited to add: Just tongue in cheek sarcasm concerning the above. I firmly believe that Transgenderism is an awful mistake for unit cohesion and recruitment/retention of qualified personnel. Being transgender doesn't fit the warrior mentality that is needed, especially in Combat Arms.

Abraham wrote:1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

http://therightscoop.com/mark-levin-pla ... n-decline/

General Patton speaking back when men were proud to be men. That's all I have to say about this.

(Edited to change link to a version with profanity edited out).

Wasn't that many years ago a man who believed he was a women (and vice versa) was considered to be unbalanced and in need of psychiatric treatment. Now society has fallen to the level that not only is this "normal" but that anyone who disagrees is a "hater".

...and if you want to be something else entirely, say a lion or an eagle, would you be considered crackers?

Nope, not anymore...

Trans-lion or Trans whatever, nothings crazy anymore...and if you say otherwise, buddy, you're a hater.

Me?

I'm off to get my seal hormone shot.

No, not the Navy kinda seal, the kind with flippers. After my complete transition, I'm gonna get a job with the circus.

I have respect for all our people in the military. I don't have them fill out a questionnaire with questions like, "What gender are you?" or "Which gender do you identify as?" before giving them that respect.

...and once again political correctness rears it head.

Pariah3j wrote:

Abraham wrote:1337,

Unless you served your opinion is without qualification.

I was in the Army infantry (1967 -1973).

Unit cohesion, esprit de corps, is very important. Having a transgender person being given special treatment would work to undermine morale in a very big way.

Having transgender people in my opinion would most definitely negatively affect morale.

I can imagine a number of scenarios that would be devastating to morale.

Contempt and they'd be plenty would adversely affect morale.

Not completely disagreeing with you but, the US Military was one of the first organizations to racially integrate, at the time some of the same arguments were made. There may have been some upsets at the time but it worked itself out. I think this too shall pass.

So to me assuming the person enlisted as an already Transgendered individual, they should be able to do so and as the gender they are or believe to be. I do not believe the military is the place to 'find yourself' or decide you want to transition. And they definitely should not be treated as special snowflakes. Provided all of that happens, I believe it can be done without eroding cohesion.

And who will pay for their transgender surgery? Once in the military it will be the taxpayer.

Veteran: "I served __ years in the military. I was deployed to _________, I was injured and lost my _________, etc."

Me: Thank you for your service.

Abraham, should one respond any differently because the veteran is transgendered?

Javier730,

Being mentally ill shouldn't be rewarded with praise, like Bruce Jenner received.

What next?

Being bi-polar or schizo or psycho should be ignored as mental illness but should garner admiration and be catered to like being crazy is a good thing?

This transgender PC nonsense is just that and should be treated for what it is: Mental Illness

So, if you're a vet with a mental illness get treatment for being ill, not catered to with horrific surgery and hormones to produce one into a modern day Frankenstein's monster.

Abraham wrote:Javier730,

Being mentally ill shouldn't be rewarded with praise, like Bruce Jenner received.

What next?

Being bi-polar or schizo or psycho should be ignored as mental illness but should garner admiration and be catered to like being crazy is a good thing?

This transgender PC nonsense is just that and should be treated for what it is: Mental Illness

So, if you're a vet with a mental illness get treatment for being ill, not catered to with horrific surgery and hormones to produce one into a modern day Frankenstein's monster.

The real problem is the distraction that this issue causes (from the real destruction to our country that Obama is orchestrating), and over time the erosion of traditional values. If we look strictly at the data, there are fewer "transgender" individuals in the entire United States than there are illegals in Texas. Just sayin...

JALLEN wrote:The Navy report can be read at http://www.news.usni.org, if you can read it.

Well, now I've read it.

This would have been an appalling fiasco even if the Iranians had not butted in. The only difference that it really made was it made the news.

This op was to move two patrol boats from Kuwait to Bahrain, about 250 nm through the Persian Gulf. Each boat had a crew of 5. A commissioned officer was boat captain on one boat. The remainder were enlisted sailors.

Charitably put, the report describes the gross deficiencies in training and maintenance that doomed this operation before even casting off lines. Exascerbating these difficulties were an appalling lack of planning, and a gross failure to plan or verify the operation of navigation and other equipment necessary to make the voyage properly. Incompetence cannot be denied. From the account of events in this report, I wouldn't take my boat out of the harbor, much less to Catalina only ~70 nm away, without an enormously greater effort to plan and verify the plan, the proper reliable operation of all essential equipment, weather and every other circumstance necessary to complete the voyage as desired. Almost none of this was competently done. Good grief!

Once underway, the crews acted as though they were going from San Diego to San Clemente Is, were beset by engine and navigation problems, and found themselves being approached by Mexican Navy craft.

The sole commissioned officer on the op gets the bulk of the responsibility, of course, but it goes all the way up the chain of command. I was in the Navy for nearly 20 years, officer and enlisted, active and reserve, but that was a long time ago. As I read the report, I had the impression that seniors created or permitted an atmosphere in which the deficiencies which doomed this fiasco could not be candidly brought to their attention, just salute, "aye, aye, sir!" and hop to it. The folks ashore failed to monitor the situation properly, nobody seems to have had paper charts of the area or used them, or maybe even knew how.

This op was doomed to be a beggar's crossroad, even if the Iranians had merely waived as the screwups passed by.

mr1337 wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-officials ... itics.html

Pentagon ends ban on transgender troops in military
Transgender people will be allowed to serve openly in the U.S. military, the Pentagon announced Thursday, ending one of the last bans on service in the armed forces.

Saying it's the right thing to do, Defense Secretary Ash Carter laid out a yearlong implementation plan declaring that "Americans who want to serve and can meet our standards should be afforded the opportunity to compete to do so."

Eh, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Men can serve, women can serve, why not someone who identifies as the opposite gender?

Because GIs constantly get put in waiting lines, handed bottles of 800mg Motrin, and are told to "suck it up" when they have actual physical problems incurred while carrying out the mission. The reasons cited are usually personnel/money related...but somehow the Armed Forces are going to now magically have plenty of money to carry out all the things necessary to turn a man into a woman or vice versa? Sorry, but I have MAJOR heartburn with the whole thing...and so do quite a few of those still wearing the uniform, even if they aren't allowed to say it.

I never served, so take my opinion for what it is, but it's very difficult for me to understand how dealing with people dealing with this issue cannot help but undermine cohesiveness of the unit, at minimum. We've had instances over the years at my job where someone for whatever reason has had to deal with some emotional issue. Others have to take up the slack; there simply is no other option at least in the short term, and it no doubt causes problems. Long term, you can eventually terminate the person causing the problems (in theory anyway, the real world doesn't always work that way), but there is inevitably some degree of damage control involved.

But I never worked a job where life and death hinged on our decisions and/or actions. I can't fathom how this would be a non-issue. I can't fathom how we've got to this point, not just with transgender issues but all these other things the left suddenly got handed to them. I guess that makes me some kind of hater or phobe.

I agree with the OP. I too think we are just about done. With Hillary most likely about to assume the controls, I've had this sick feeling all week that this may well be the last truly "Independence" Day.