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If the manager gives permission the action is legal. It's a $200 ticket if you're caught and wrongly convicted. Just go in concealed and go about your business. It's about the same as worrying whether you'll get arrested for carrying in a non posted location WITH a LTC.

Would an LEO accept written permission in a 30.06 location or maybe read it, laugh and take you for the ride?

Abraham wrote:Would an LEO accept written permission in a 30.06 location or maybe read it, laugh and take you for the ride?

Again...For the "ride" to the JP to issue a summons? Seems like a waste of time, but maybe he'd just arrest you for 46.02 UCW even though you have a LTC...It's just a "defense to prosecution" after all, so you may take the proverbial "ride".

ScottDLS,

Just speculating.

Cops can see gray, but most everything is black and white.

To my knowledge, there's no provision to the 30.06 signage that essentially says you can get a written exception. Perhaps, there is, but I've not heard or read it.

My guess: I wouldn't trust the written exception as permission as such permission is fraught with problems...

I can just see some one higher up on the management food chain stating MR./MRS. doesn't have the authority to give out written exceptions, etc......

I would not carry there nor would I go there.

I wonder if the owner of the posted facility could legally carry there?

C-dub wrote:It's not just where you buy the vehicle from. It is also where will you have it serviced and repaired. You will have to disarm every time you go there to drop it off and pick it up or while you wait. Disarm every time before leaving the house to do anything at this dealership. That was too much for me. I will not buy another vehicle from any place that disarms me and if the place I do buy our next vehicle from puts up a sign later I will not return to them except for warranty work if I can't get it done at another dealership.

C-dub is absolutely right on this point, and it is a primary reason why I wouldn't buy a car from a posted dealership. I can live with 30.07. I don't like it, but I can live with it. But a 30.06 sign is a deal-breaker for me. I spent a few hours of one day buying my 2015 4Runner, purchased in March 2015; but I have spent many times that much time getting it serviced in the intervening 20 months. That is why I won't buy from a posted dealership. I won't be willingly disarmed just to buy a vehicle that would require my having to disarm just to have it serviced. This would heavily influence the decision as to which make and model I buy. I would probably not buy a vehicle that isn't convenient for me to own due to distance from the dealership, unless it were simply the result of my not living near any dealerships.

Buying a car Is asking to put a lot of trust in the seller. Will he get the registration and title handled Quickly, will they do the servicing at a fair price? Hard to trust someone that doesn't trust us enough to let us be armed.

I'd spend the time filling out the paper work and just as I pick up the pen to sign Id have the salesman go get the manager. When he arrived I would say that there is just one more thing before I buy this car...take down those signs for good. If he refused then I'd get up and leave.

tex

It would be nice to think that would work.

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:Like the old lawyers joke goes, "a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it's written on".

Let's say the X gives you verbal permission to carry, and that X really does have the authority to do so.

Worst-case Hypothetical situation: something ugly happens while you're there. you draw and repel boarders but before you were successful, X got killed by the goblin(s). Do you really want your position, once you get to court, to be "the dead guy said it was OK"?

As for the other problem; a car is a car is a car. If the next Acura dealer is an inconvenient distance away, then don't buy one. Buy an Audi or BMW or Lexus or a whatever from somebody closer who isn't posted 30.06

If/when I have to pull my pistol out the last thing that will be on my mind is some technicality like that. My pistol isn't coming out unless I feel my life is in danger and if that is the case I could care less about what laws were involved up until that point. What good will it do to follow a law and be dead because of it? This shouldn't be misconstrued as I plan on intentionally breaking the law. Just that if my life is in danger, I'm going to rectify that situation regardless. I'd rather be in front of a jury explaining why I might have illegally carried than dead.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:It's not just where you buy the vehicle from. It is also where will you have it serviced and repaired. You will have to disarm every time you go there to drop it off and pick it up or while you wait. Disarm every time before leaving the house to do anything at this dealership. That was too much for me. I will not buy another vehicle from any place that disarms me and if the place I do buy our next vehicle from puts up a sign later I will not return to them except for warranty work if I can't get it done at another dealership.

C-dub is absolutely right on this point, and it is a primary reason why I wouldn't buy a car from a posted dealership. I can live with 30.07. I don't like it, but I can live with it. But a 30.06 sign is a deal-breaker for me. I spent a few hours of one day buying my 2015 4Runner, purchased in March 2015; but I have spent many times that much time getting it serviced in the intervening 20 months. That is why I won't buy from a posted dealership. I won't be willingly disarmed just to buy a vehicle that would require my having to disarm just to have it serviced. This would heavily influence the decision as to which make and model I buy. I would probably not buy a vehicle that isn't convenient for me to own due to distance from the dealership, unless it were simply the result of my not living near any dealerships.

The dealership I bought my Corolla at a few years ago posted 30.06/07 at their service center this year. I have no intentions of going back, even though I have lifetime free oil changes there.

I just can't understand the logic of posting a 30.06 at a service center. You want me to leave my gun in my car while people I don't know work on and test drive it? Not a chance.

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:

30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...

30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...

Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

sixer-sxt-3.7 wrote:

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:

30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...

30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...

Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

I asked earlier without a response, if the place is posted can the owner carry? In other words can someone with authority over-ride his own signs? If the answer is yes than I assume that someone with authority can also give you permission to carry (and I would get it in writing). After all, the person with authority can also remove the signs (or give you verbal instructions to leave).

sixer-sxt-3.7 wrote:

Mike S wrote:IANAL.

Both 30.06/30.07 makes it an offense to enter a property under the authority of your LTC without effective consent (when properly posted). The 'without effective consent ' part generally means that no one told you it was o.k. to enter, presumably because when CC'ing they wouldn't know you were carrying and therefore it wouldn't come up.

Effective consent may be given. If the manager gives you consent to enter (assuming the manager knows you are entering with your handgun), then I would believe no offense has occurred.

I did mention IANAL, didn't I?? I'm willing to bet someone smarter than me (and/or a lawyer) will correct me if I'm wrong.

Not quite - I liked where you were going, but had to double check the notices:

30.06(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun...

30.07(c)(3)(A) wrote:...Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly...

Neither say something to the effect of "without permission". These notices are, by default, notice that you may not enter. If you do, there will be consequences - regardless of what the manager tells you. Now, I'm sure this is up to whatever manager if he/she even decides to call the police. And it may be up to the premises owner to decide to press charges or not - I'm not sure if these signs mean an "automatic arrest" if a cop sees you doing it.

Here's the actual statutes; I highlighted in blue the part about it being an offense without effective consent:

Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.


Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder openly carries the handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
(f) It is not a defense to prosecution under this section that the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster.

The signs you referenced merely satisfies "written notice" if you are carrying openly/concealed under the authority of your LTC, on someone else's property, without their consent.