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Anyone that is sitting down that when moving to a standing position, tugs on one side of their shirt but not the other, is a giveaway. That's me constantly, but only after I've profiled everyone else in the theater two hours before, etc. I moved to OWB and cheap kydex holsters grab and bunch every piece of fabric within five inches of them.

When someone has a fade and you are too old to look like you're home on leave, I used to constantly check to see if I could catch someone with a shirt tugging in the wrong spot, etc. Then I just stopped caring, exactly like I expect people not to care if my shirt rides up a little and they catch the bottom of the holster at Home Depot, etc. The only time I care is when I'm in a situation or location in which I'm in "high yellow" potentially shifting to orange (ie, a potential developing threat or situation that hasn't been assessed well enough yet to sink back to regular yellow.)

I get really mindful when around LEOs in non rights friendly environments. ie, when I'm on Highway 6 on my way to Dallas from Houston, I have a real reasonable assumption that no LEO is going to profile me, but if I'm near the medical center in Houston, Dallas, etc., I start feeling like a criminal without doing anything wrong. I'm too old and too married to get into discussions about beating the wrap but not the ride and "precautionary" steps taken by Atlanta PD etc., and would rather just avoid it. (Atlanta is where I had the harassment beaten into my head through constant LEO interactions in a relatively small community when I first got licensed, which is why I constantly bring it up)

I know Texas isn't really used to OC yet, but the general pop and criminal pop are completely flipping oblivious to normal IWB *OC* carry in my experience (LA, GA, VA). (This is large frame semi-auto OC against a bright gold shirt in a full outdoor restaurant, etc.)

TL;DR: Your actions draw attention, not the inanimate presence of what appears to be a bunchy shirt in peripheral vision for CC. And for the girl in the picture, I'd only be worried about being able to clear the shirt from the holster, but good on her! Ammo on the other side I presume?

Right here and ain't ashamed.

nonleg wrote:Anyone that is sitting down that when moving to a standing position, tugs on one side of their shirt but not the other, is a giveaway. That's me constantly, but only after I've profiled everyone else in the theater two hours before, etc. I moved to OWB and cheap kydex holsters grab and bunch every piece of fabric within five inches of them.

When someone has a fade and you are too old to look like you're home on leave, I used to constantly check to see if I could catch someone with a shirt tugging in the wrong spot, etc. Then I just stopped caring, exactly like I expect people not to care if my shirt rides up a little and they catch the bottom of the holster at Home Depot, etc. The only time I care is when I'm in a situation or location in which I'm in "high yellow" potentially shifting to orange (ie, a potential developing threat or situation that hasn't been assessed well enough yet to sink back to regular yellow.)

I get really mindful when around LEOs in non rights friendly environments. ie, when I'm on Highway 6 on my way to Dallas from Houston, I have a real reasonable assumption that no LEO is going to profile me, but if I'm near the medical center in Houston, Dallas, etc., I start feeling like a criminal without doing anything wrong. I'm too old and too married to get into discussions about beating the wrap but not the ride and "precautionary" steps taken by Atlanta PD etc., and would rather just avoid it. (Atlanta is where I had the harassment beaten into my head through constant LEO interactions in a relatively small community when I first got licensed, which is why I constantly bring it up)

I know Texas isn't really used to OC yet, but the general pop and criminal pop are completely flipping oblivious to normal IWB *OC* carry in my experience (LA, GA, VA). (This is large frame semi-auto OC against a bright gold shirt in a full outdoor restaurant, etc.)

TL;DR: Your actions draw attention, not the inanimate presence of what appears to be a bunchy shirt in peripheral vision for CC. And for the girl in the picture, I'd only be worried about being able to clear the shirt from the holster, but good on her! Ammo on the other side I presume?

I agree actions/body language, are a definite tell for almost anything you are doing, but, and don't misinterpret, my ignorance, for curiosity, why were you, or why do you believe LEO, are so anti LTC? I have only had positive interactions with LEO, while carrying. I have never been to Atlanta, so I can't comment one way or the other regarding LEO, attitude towards lawful carry. I only know that any and all interactions with Texas LEO, have been, exactly as they should have been. If you don't mind, please give a few more details, regarding you interactions with, not only LEO, but the general public. Thanks

Flightmare wrote:

Jusme wrote: I agree actions/body language, are a definite tell for almost anything you are doing, but, and don't misinterpret, my ignorance, for curiosity, why were you, or why do you believe LEO, are so anti LTC? I have only had positive interactions with LEO, while carrying. I have never been to Atlanta, so I can't comment one way or the other regarding LEO, attitude towards lawful carry. I only know that any and all interactions with Texas LEO, have been, exactly as they should have been. If you don't mind, please give a few more details, regarding you interactions with, not only LEO, but the general public. Thanks

It's primarily LEO in urban areas (tend to vote blue). Atlanta PD, as well as Dekalb and Fulton county LEOs are relatively well known for putting someone on the ground for having the temerity of ordering a chicken sandwich for OC, for example. The concept of the Terry stop was used over, and over, and over, across people exercising OC, but not apparently in the process of creating reasonable suspicion that a crime was afoot. This type of justified paranoia formed almost the entirety of my early "carded" life from 2006-2009.

The probate judges that issue licenses are borderline openly hostile; while there is a state law that indicates "shall issue" within 90 days, it would usually take well over six months to get issuance, and in my case I think it was 11 months. I literally had to call or visit the probate clerk every two weeks (her name was Sheila lol) to get my permit issued. The city/county also regularly tried to break state and federal law, with a blatant example being the airport. Federal law (IANAL) prohibits weapons in the secure area of the airport. The airport authority attempted to restrict the carrying of firearms on *all* airport property, to include the parking lots, check in area, etc. Taking your firearm in a locked case to check on a flight became a heartpounding (for a new licensee) experience as you had to walk by signs that you *knew* were illegal http://tucson.com/news/national/atlanta ... 1970a.html

"This is a matter of national significance," Mayor Shirley Franklin told reporters at a news conference. Permitting guns inside an airport, even weapons carried by permit holders, would create an unsafe environment that "would endanger millions of people," the mayor said.

Franklin vowed Tuesday to lobby Congress and federal officials to mandate that any public facility receiving federal money be declared a "gun-free zone." That would affect airports nationwide.

Franklin's comments followed a vow by city officials to arrest anyone carrying a gun at Hartsfield-Jackson. The city drew a line in the sand on the same day a new state law easing gun restrictions in public places took effect.

Georgia law was also written to prohibit licensed carry at "public gatherings." This was not really defined in law, and we (Georgiapacking.org) were essentially reduced to having thread after thread created asking questions like if a church fishing tournament qualified as a public gathering. Metro PD and sheriffs were pretty regularly creating circumstances with horribly loose definitions (eyeballing a fender bender and a crowd gathers? Uh oh!) that created doubt and fear in most people that carried. Take the Rodeo examples from Texas with younger cops not knowing what the rules are, but tending to default to the most restrictive stance, and multiply that by 500 across the Atlanta airport, retail establishments, etc.

It's not all LEOs obviously, as we figured out that going to Cobb County (NW ATL) and OC would produce almost no response. OC in Louisiana, no response. OC in northern Virginia, you get a lot of interest. OC in the SW corner of the state of VA, no response.

Anytime I've ever had a negative experience it has *always* been in an urban area. Rural areas have never produced a negative LEO experience, with the exception when a county cop on an interstate disarmed me, cleared the chamber and left my weapon, ammo, and loose round on the bumper of my truck for a speeding offense in the middle of the day.

While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Maybe it was the "Come and Take It" shirt!

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Whether or not it is "proper," I don't have a problem with any LEO asking to see my license, anywhere. They are going to know at that point that I am not a BG. Not saying its right or wrong, I just don't care if they ask me.

Lynyrd wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Whether or not it is "proper," I don't have a problem with any LEO asking to see my license, anywhere. They are going to know at that point that I am not a BG. Not saying its right or wrong, I just don't care if they ask me.

Just like I don't care when asked if I had a fishing license back in NY, I was glad I had it and was happy to show it.

Lynyrd wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Whether or not it is "proper," I don't have a problem with any LEO asking to see my license, anywhere. They are going to know at that point that I am not a BG. Not saying its right or wrong, I just don't care if they ask me.

To me it is about both the principal of the issue as well as a practical aspect.

I don't like LEO's or other assuming that I may have stolen the car I am driving because I am dirty from working in the yard, or assuming that I might be a felon because I am carrying a weapon, or anything in between. Then again I also (politely) decline to give permission to search my vehicle during a random traffic stop even if "I have nothing to hide".

Yesterday after returning home from a range session and stopping at Walmart to pick up bread, I realized that I had picked up a lot of things at WalMart but not bread. I had already removed my cover shirt and just had on a t-shirt, so pulled the t-shirt out and over my gun while I ran back out to Albertsons. Looking in the mirror as I went out the door, I realized my gun was printing just like the lady's in the picture attached to this post above.

Pawpaw wrote:Question of the Day: Is Printing an Issue?

I think everyone will agree the woman in the picture is certainly "printing".

No snowflakes were melted by my plainly printing gun during my brief shopping trip to Albertsons.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

Lynyrd wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

striker55 wrote:While visiting the Alamo I checked for signs and not seeing any I went in. As I'm standing in the main room a trooper tapped my shoulder and asked if I had a license. I was a little shocked that he spotted me, I asked him if it wasn't allowed. He said only if I didn't have a license, he took me to the side and I proudly showed my ltc. I asked if I was showing, he said no that he could spot people carrying. Wished me a good day.

Unless the trooper had reason to believe that you were committing a crime, that was improper of him, I believe. I wonder if he randomly pulls over drivers to check on whether they have a driver's license?

Whether or not it is "proper," I don't have a problem with any LEO asking to see my license, anywhere. They are going to know at that point that I am not a BG. Not saying its right or wrong, I just don't care if they ask me.

To me it is about both the principal of the issue as well as a practical aspect.

I don't like LEO's or other assuming that I may have stolen the car I am driving because I am dirty from working in the yard, or assuming that I might be a felon because I am carrying a weapon, or anything in between. Then again I also (politely) decline to give permission to search my vehicle during a random traffic stop even if "I have nothing to hide".

There is a principal, involved, and while, it's well within the officer's authority, to inquire about an LTC, to do so, just because, "he can spot someone carrying" is, in my opinion, not really justified. I have had nothing but positive interactions with LEO while carrying, and have only shown my LTC, when stopped for a traffic violation. I OC the majority, of the time, and have never been questioned by LEO. I believe that unless he had reason to do so, i.e. MWAG report etc. There was no reason to check your legality. I haven't been to the Alamo, in several years, was this a Texas State Trooper, who questioned you?