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J.R.@A&M wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:26 am Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

philip964 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:36 pm https://news.yahoo.com/rittenhouse-verd ... 24203.html

Set legal precedent for white privilege.

J.R.@A&M wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:26 am Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

srothstein wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:52 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:26 am Post-trial, I am mostly agreeing with this perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... el/620715/ . Easy for me to say since I had no property at risk from rioting arsonists. But that is one more reason I wouldn't want an armed teenager there, either.

I disagree for several reasons, some of which have been mentioned by others and at least one of which has not. I do agree that Rittenhouse should not have gone to Kenosha that night. But that is what comes of age and experience. I have done some stupid things, especially back when I was 17. That includes going to places which are not safe. But going there does not make him a vigilante, as the article slipped in. If it did, every bank guard who carried a gun would also be a vigilante.

I could almost agree that none of this should make Rittenhouse a folk hero. Even knowing our history of making folk heroes out of criminals like Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, and Bonnie and Clyde, I think this makes Rittenhouse much more of a folk hero than anything George Floyd did. And if the left can build monuments to him, the right can certainly elevate Rittenhouse's stature somewhat.

carlson1 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:23 pm

J.R.@A&M wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:18 pm The lack of youthful hero's is totally beside the point.
.
I wouldn't go near a riot. I wouldn't let my 17-yo go near a riot. I wouldn't send a 17-yo there on my behalf. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

The verdict I believe was right, but the very first mistake made was this 17 year old going to the riots as you said above. Even though you can doesn’t mean you always should.

Make the state disprove a self-defense claim at a special proceeding long before trial, then make the state disprove it again to a jury at trial.

Also, a person using force to defend himself against rioters must be presumed to use it lawfully.

The jury shall be instructed that unarmed individuals can pose a grave threat to armed individuals, and that a person attempting to take the weapon of the self-defender by force or threat of force shall be presumed to intend to use that weapon upon the self-defender." Try to take a piece? Better make your peace.

Let's also give the jury the full story and require that the entire criminal history of the target be revealed to the jury and that the jury be instructed that this history can be considered on the question of whether the self-defender was threatened.

And we just found out that the prosecutors in the Rittenhouse case were playing games with the evidence, substituting a hi-res version of a video for an unclear one that showed much less. We need a one strike rule for this kind of misconduct – if the DA cheats, the accused walks. Period. And not just in self-defense cases.

let's make the DA put some municipal skin in the game. Red legislatures must pass laws that ensure that not only does the locality have to pay all the defense costs of an acquitted accused, but the locality must pay his other damages, like lost wages and emotional distress. DAs, go ahead and charge him if you really believe it's not self-defense, but be prepared to put your money where your indictment is.

tomneal wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:26 pm Kurt Schlichter has an interesting take on updates to our Self Defense laws.

The entire article is worth a read. Schlichter also writes fiction and they are worth reading as well.

Here are some samples from Kurt's article.

Make the state disprove a self-defense claim at a special proceeding long before trial, then make the state disprove it again to a jury at trial.

Also, a person using force to defend himself against rioters must be presumed to use it lawfully.

The jury shall be instructed that unarmed individuals can pose a grave threat to armed individuals, and that a person attempting to take the weapon of the self-defender by force or threat of force shall be presumed to intend to use that weapon upon the self-defender." Try to take a piece? Better make your peace.

Let's also give the jury the full story and require that the entire criminal history of the target be revealed to the jury and that the jury be instructed that this history can be considered on the question of whether the self-defender was threatened.

And we just found out that the prosecutors in the Rittenhouse case were playing games with the evidence, substituting a hi-res version of a video for an unclear one that showed much less. We need a one strike rule for this kind of misconduct – if the DA cheats, the accused walks. Period. And not just in self-defense cases.

let's make the DA put some municipal skin in the game. Red legislatures must pass laws that ensure that not only does the locality have to pay all the defense costs of an acquitted accused, but the locality must pay his other damages, like lost wages and emotional distress. DAs, go ahead and charge him if you really believe it's not self-defense, but be prepared to put your money where your indictment is.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtsch ... 599239?180

Kurt did not include one of my pet peeves. There should be three possible verdicts: Guilty, Not Guilty, Innocent
In my opinion, Kyle Rittenhouse should have been found "Innocent".

On a side note. I saw photo's of the prosecutor pointing an AR at the jury. It didn't have sights. Did Kyle do all that Very Accurate shooting without sights?

Kyle Rittenhouse was found not guilty on all five counts. Legal Insurrection covered the trial as intensively as anyone. At this online event Attorney Andrew Branca of The Law of Self-Defense, and Prof. William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection Foundation and Cornell Law School, will go over the good, the bad, and the ugly of the case, and give you their perspectives. The event will be moderated by Kemberlee Kaye, Director of Operations and Editorial Development for the Legal Insurrection Foundation. There will be opportunity for Q&A.

Space is limited, so register now to reserve your spot!

srothstein wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:52 pm

I could almost agree that none of this should make Rittenhouse a folk hero. Even knowing our history of making folk heroes out of criminals like Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, and Bonnie and Clyde, I think this makes Rittenhouse much more of a folk hero than anything George Floyd did. And if the left can build monuments to him, the right can certainly elevate Rittenhouse's stature somewhat.

C-dub wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:22 pm I know people keep saying that he had no business bringing a rifle to a protest and no duty or right to be protecting another person's business. Especially with a rifle. I do have a different opinion or viewpoint.

He did not go to a protest with a rifle. The protest came to him.

chasfm11 wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:00 pm The author says that Rittenhouse was not a hero. I disagree with that, too. I feel strongly that he made a mistake by going into the middle of that fray. But his heroic behavior stems from a very limited response to that attacks launched against him. He could have unleashed far more than he did - as much as CNN accused him of unleashing. But he didn't. He stopped the threats and stopped when they were no longer threats. That takes a level of restraint that many, perhaps even me, may not be able to duplicate in difficult circumstances.