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seamusTX wrote:The word concealed is defined in the law:

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

I don't believe that telling someone you are armed is a violation of the law. I certainly can't see a judge allowing such a charge to come to trial.

- Jim

"Hey Everyone, I have a .44 mag in my waistband." "Go ahead, Make my Day!"

Legal?

RicRogue wrote:"Hey Everyone, I have a .44 mag in my waistband." "Go ahead, Make my Day!"

Legal?

Maybe. It could be construed as disorderly conduct or a terroristic threat, but not failure to conceal (assuming it is concealed from view).

I think it depends very much on the context and your manner of expression. Someone saying something like that could be kidding with friends, or confronting a gang of thugs.

- Jim

Cool...I would never disclose it, even in a gangbanger situation. I would lose my advantage, and would possibly draw out his.

I think disclosing it to security is just being friendly. Maybe they have found a problem with certain carries, and they want to warn you. No harm.

MY CHL instructor (a LEO) said that I would be perfectly within my rights to say "I am a Concealed Handgun License holder and I am armed."


That avoids making a terroristic threat and is not brandishing the weapon. It would not really be any different than telling your friend or spouse that you have a CHL.

CHL/LEO wrote:This entire situation has perhaps turned out fairly positive. I know it's been an education for fair management regarding the public feedback to them regarding the right for CHL holders to carry into the fair grounds. It's also provided us (LEOs) and opportunity to provide them feedback regarding our thoughts regarding this situation.

Perhaps they realize that CHL holders aren't the threat that they perceived or maybe it's the realization that they were on a slippery slope legally regarding their legal right to ban CHL holders.

Maybe a thread could be started that's titled, "My Experiences at the 2007 State Fair" and CHL holders could add to it after they attended the fair. If I hear of any negative situations I will add them to the thread too. Hopefully it will be positive.

Absolutely...Your bringing up the inside story on this really helped us out...

As outraged as I was about the issue, and knowing that it was either going to be like this, or the legislature was probably going to have to step in and once again clarify all of this...

I believe for the most part it handled itself...

I am kinda hoping it still receives some attention next session, and that some sort of "thing" can be spun off of it to keep something like this from growing legs again...

The battle rages on I suppose...

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Photoman wrote:2. Is it even legal for me to reveal where my concealed gun is except to a LEO?

This is an interesting question. I believe telling someone you have a handgun is not a violation of TPC §46.035(a) - Intentional failure to conceal. However, shortly after SB60 passed in 1995, former Rep. Ron Wilson (a co-author [in name only] of the House version) was quoted as saying that verbal disclosure that you were armed would violate §46.035(a). I disagree.

Chas.

To further muddy the waters, am I legally required to answer such a question as, "Where is your concealed gun?" when asked by a non-LEO?

Photoman wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Photoman wrote:2. Is it even legal for me to reveal where my concealed gun is except to a LEO?

This is an interesting question. I believe telling someone you have a handgun is not a violation of TPC §46.035(a) - Intentional failure to conceal. However, shortly after SB60 passed in 1995, former Rep. Ron Wilson (a co-author [in name only] of the House version) was quoted as saying that verbal disclosure that you were armed would violate §46.035(a). I disagree.

Chas.

To further muddy the waters, am I legally required to answer such a question as, "Where is your concealed gun?" when asked by a non-LEO?

I don't see why it would be required if they ask where my handgun, my wallet, or my car keys were.

Twice now. This last time was on Monday (Jonas Brothers). I've never seen such a press of human flesh as that crowd...but I digress.

Entered gate fifteen. There were three wand lines. I presented my credentials, he discreetly asked if I was carrying. When I affirmed that I was he excused us and closed the line, walked me to the officer posted inside the gate. the officer was jovial and glanced at my creds and compared it to me and said "have a nice day". I was done inside of five minutes. Quite the change from the last few years.

I sense a change in policy as this experience seems to be the norm this year.

Kyle

Photoman wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Photoman wrote:2. Is it even legal for me to reveal where my concealed gun is except to a LEO?

This is an interesting question. I believe telling someone you have a handgun is not a violation of TPC §46.035(a) - Intentional failure to conceal. However, shortly after SB60 passed in 1995, former Rep. Ron Wilson (a co-author [in name only] of the House version) was quoted as saying that verbal disclosure that you were armed would violate §46.035(a). I disagree.

Chas.

To further muddy the waters, am I legally required to answer such a question as, "Where is your concealed gun?" when asked by a non-LEO?

No.
Chas.

Thanks Charles.

the officer was jovial and glanced at my creds and compared it to me and said "have a nice day". I was done inside of five minutes. Quite the change from the last few years.

We've worked very hard to make sure all CHL holders are treated well and not delayed. Most of the officers out there are on board with that as we had some good discussions after our initial marching orders changed regarding CHL holders at the Fair.

WARNING - this Friday (October 12th) is Dallas ISD day at the fair. We also refer to it as "gang night". If you come to the fair that day be careful and do not be surprised by the larger than normal contingent of officers you will see - especially in the evening. This is our "worst day" of the fair every year from a LE standpoint. Be careful, be alert, and when you see (or feel) that things are starting to get out of control - you might want to think about leaving for your own safety - especially if you have your family with you.

Every year on this night we have all these families that come in from the rural areas of Texas and have no clue what they have stepped into. Most of them have no early warning system as to what is going on around them - they are just plain oblivious to danger which makes them stand out as victims to these predators. As the evening goes on, and once things start ramping up, we try to make it a point to politely suggest that they leave ASAP. Most of them look at us like we're crazy until they stop what they're doing, look around and realize what is happening. Then we usually hear a statement similar to Dorothy's, "We are not in Kansas anymore Toto" as they quickly head for the gates.

Anyway, have fun if you do come out to visit this year and don't hesitate to ask any of us for help, directions, suggestions, etc.

Ahh crap. I've made plans going with the family there tomorrow around 4pm. Looks like I'm packing an extra mag with me...

Just got home from the State Fair and would like to say everything went well. Security took a glanced at my CHL and DL for about 15 seconds and let me in. Did not even wand me at all. It wasn't so bad tonight like I imagined. I would also like to say thank you to the DPD for handling security tonight. Almost every corner had 2 LEO stationed there which was a good sign. In all, this was the best year State Fair has been towards CHL Holders.

CHL/LEO wrote: WARNING - this Friday (October 12th) is Dallas ISD day at the fair. We also refer to it as "gang night". If you come to the fair that day be careful and do not be surprised by the larger than normal contingent of officers you will see - especially in the evening. This is our "worst day" of the fair every year from a LE standpoint. Be careful, be alert, and when you see (or feel) that things are starting to get out of control - you might want to think about leaving for your own safety - especially if you have your family with you.

The wife and I made the mistake of going to the fair on DISD secondary school day one year. It had the "high-stress, potential violence" vibe one might find in a prison yard. The first thing we do now when planning the fair visit is to see when DISD day is and avoid it like the plague. Seniors day is the inverse of DISD day, BTW.

Went yesterday (Saturday).

Was wanded by a quite young fellow. I had my CHL/DL in my right hand at chest level as I approached his station. He wanded my left side without looking at them. He wanded my right side and got the beep from the OWB holster area. He stopped, looked at my CHL/DL, and locked up. I think "panicked" would be an overstatement but "stunned and confused" would be accurate.

I didn't have a stopwatch going but to my left 3-4 people were processed while he stared at my CHL/DL. Gears were turning. He had that "they told us something about this but I don't remember what to do" look about him. He evenually asked to see my DL (which was very slightly obscured by a corner of the CHL). That's ok, buddy. I get it. You need some more time to process the situation. I rearranged the licenses for him then resumed standing still with neutral body language. He stared some more. He eventually stammered "I-i-i-i-i-i-it's ok" and waved me through.

Not stressful for me. Pretty stressful for him, I think.

PS: we rode the sky ride and did not die.
PPS: on the way home I realized I had a small pocketknife in my right front pocket, as is my usual practice. I think this would be "a weapon" which I should not have carried in the fair. This is an oversight which could have reflected poorly on the CHL community if for some reason it came to light. Sorry about that.

a small pocket knife is not allowed?