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mr.72 wrote:Figuring a group of 6 determined attackers closing in from 25 ft. when you begin shooting, maybe you stop two or three of them while they are advancing before you run out of of 5 or 6 rounds and have to reload, and that takes you 3 seconds, by then whichever ones are still standing are at arm's reach and undeterred from advancing once you stop shooting for even one second.

From 25ft, the amount of ammunition won't matter; it takes a finite amount of time to engage six moving targets. If I'm dealing with an assault force comprised of the sort of professionals that aren't deterred by two or three of their buddies catching .357s at close range, I'll need a lot more than any handgun. If we're going to be preparing for that kind of scenario, then we also need to make sure we've got close air and artillery support on speed dial.

Reloading ANYTHING at this stage is going to be difficult, if not impossible

Empty a gun in a person-to-person confrontation, you can forget about reloading with multiple attackers. It is now a knife fight, assuming you have one. I hope that is a valid assumption. Because if it is not, you have sacrificed the rest of any advantage you many have unless you are an expert in hand-to-hand combat or can run like the wind. Close and go for the kill. Get the closest strong one first, then one or more weaker ones. The rest will probably be gone at that point, if not before. Reloading is for the range and standoff situations like mall shooters. Great thing about a knife is that it's a repeating arm that never runs out of ammo.


Double Edged Cold Steel Tai Pan

The best combat knife, as explained to me once by a guy in a green beret at Ft. Benning, GA has a double edged blade that cuts both ways when it enters a throat and is thrust back-and-forth in a sideways motion. This individual was conducting training after three tours in Vietnam. I took him at his word.

DoubleJ wrote:reload. jam. FTFeed. FTExtract. FTFire. what if the first attacker takes all your 15rds. we're all presuming that each person gets one shot. most times, that's not the case.

as a side note, I personally didn't think you were denigrating anyone, it's just nice to brag on HV when the oppurtunity arrises.

That why I've got 59 rounds at my disposal in my normal carry setup. 15+1 in my Hi-Power plus 2 extra mags. 6+1 in the LCP plus 1 extra mag. Fallback redundancy is a good thing.

You know, the wheelgun absolutely ruled the defensive handgun up until I would guess the mid 70's or 80's. People began to buy into the "I can miss more times with this gun" line and now believe the wheelgun to be archaic and apparently ineffective.

I'll stick with my 5 or 6 shot wheelgun, along with spare ammo, and actually hitting what I shoot at.

Name: Ima Suspect

Group photography:
http://www.startribune.com/local/254727 ... 0+%20Metro

HighVelocity wrote: Be as good as you can with the tools you have and try not to put yourself in a situation you cannot escape. That's all any of us can do.

I have seen HV shoot and he’s one to watch. Even one of the fun ones to shoot with. But as with everything practice makes better. No situation is a good one but I can tell you this. If I have to shoot a multiple aggressors and they keep advancing you can sure bet I am not going to be standing still. Learning to reload fast is one thing. Learning to reload on the move is another. Learning both can be a life saver.

Also it would depend on the shooter. If some one is more proficient with a revolver then is possible that they can out shoot a semi with everything else being the same.

casingpoint wrote:

Reloading ANYTHING at this stage is going to be difficult, if not impossible

Empty a gun in a person-to-person confrontation, you can forget about reloading with multiple attackers. It is now a knife fight, assuming you have one. I hope that is a valid assumption. Because if it is not, you have sacrificed the rest of any advantage you many have unless you are an expert in hand-to-hand combat or can run like the wind. Close and go for the kill. Get the closest strong one first, then one or more weaker ones. The rest will probably be gone at that point, if not before. Reloading is for the range and standoff situations like mall shooters. Great thing about a knife is that it's a repeating arm that never runs out of ammo.


Double Edged Cold Steel Tai Pan

The best combat knife, as explained to me once by a guy in a green beret at Ft. Benning, GA has a double edged blade that cuts both ways when it enters a throat and is thrust back-and-forth in a sideways motion. This individual was conducting training after three tours in Vietnam. I took him at his word.

Unfortunately, double edged knives are illegal for civilians to carry (in Texas).

HighVelocity wrote:While I too hope that I'd never have to reload in a self defense situation (revolver or semi auto), I am quite proficient in reloading a revolver in a hurry.

That might be a bit of an understatement .

I'd think an empty revolver would still make a nice melee weapon.

agbullet2k1 wrote:Anyone mention the possibility of maybe just carrying two revolvers?

Sure. It's called a "New York Reload".

double edged knives are illegal for civilians to carry (in Texas)

Wonder how many cops in the Lone Star State carry one?

The U.S. Supreme Court says by implication you can carry a knife, and did not specify in Heller an length or edge limitations. Certainly a knives were commonly owned civilian arms "back in the day." Surely some must have had double edges, further entrenching your right to carry one.

double edged knives are illegal for civilians to carry (in Texas)

The U.S. Supreme Court says by implication you can carry a knife, and did not specify in Heller an length or edge limitations. Certainly a knives were commonly owned civilian arms "back in the day." Surely some must have had double edges, further entrenching your right to carry one.

Testing the legal limits of theories on novel interpretations of implied rights that directly contradict clearly established law is best left to those with lots of time and money, and not much that they'll need to be at liberty to take care of for the next 10 years or so.

Texas' 5 1/2 inch blade limit is pretty generous considering many other states set the bar at about half that. There's very little you can't accomplish with a knife that size, short of swordfighting. Most of the knives I prefer to carry for general use and sport don't come close to the limit.

casingpoint wrote:

double edged knives are illegal for civilians to carry (in Texas)

Wonder how many cops in the Lone Star State carry one?

Don't know.

The U.S. Supreme Court says by implication you can carry a knife, and did not specify in Heller an length or edge limitations.

The State of Texas currently does!
§ 46.01. DEFINITIONS.


(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half
inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab
another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk,
stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.

Certainly a knives were commonly owned civilian arms "back in the day." Surely some must have had double edges, further entrenching your right to carry one.

Unless I am missing something...the Heller case involved a persons right to own a firearm (handgun specifically) and the court correctly exercised a certain amount of Judicial Restraint.

But, we are getting off topic here.

Returning to the subject of the OP, (Good Argument Against a 6-Shooter), it appears that the argument presented is based solely on mathematics. (7 Attackers vs 6-Shooter)
However, as pointed out in the first two posts, the problem is not necessarily math as other
dynamics should be considered.
The ability of the shooter to score hits and reload is a definite factor.

I have to say that the post where my friend HV is lying on the ground being systematically beaten by all seven attackers after apparently firing 6 warning shots is not to be considered
relative to the answer.

So after all the discussion, the question remains.
Is this scenario a good argument against a 6-shooter?
The answer is no.
However a weapon of higher capacity would have a mathematical advantage.

The outcome of this scenario will be determined by the mindset, ability, and tactics of the
shooter and not by his choice of weapons.

The outcome of this scenario will be determined by the mindset, ability, and tactics of the
shooter and not by his choice of weapons

Winner!