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Excaliber wrote:

Mr.72 wrote: PM9 is just about as big as you can get and still be pocketable IMHO. CW9/P9 are just too big for a pocket and would be much better suited to IWB IMHO. I think your typical double-stack 9mm are too fat for IWB and would be better for OWB.

I agree on the PM9. The PM40 is just about exactly the same size as the PM9 (.05 inch longer and same height) in the larger caliber, but pockets just as well as its 9mm cousin. The PM45 is just enough bigger that it takes it out of the pocket category.

I also agree that double stack pistols are generally better suited for OWB carry, although with judicious holster and wardrobe selection they can work IWB. This is generally more practical / comfortable for folks who tend more toward the slender side.

But, even some “single stacks” can present problems.

This Ultra carry (single stack) with factory grips is as wide as my double stack Para (albeit the grips taper). But, all other dimensions (except barrel/slide length) are approximately the same.

In this case, I’ll go with (13) rounds vs. the lesser round count of the Ultra. The compromise of course, is the added weight of the double stack. The UC would benefit greatly from slimmer aftermarket grips.

flintknapper wrote:But, even some “single stacks” can present problems.

This Ultra carry (single stack) with factory grips is as wide as my double stack Para (albeit the grips taper). But, all other dimensions (except barrel/slide length) are approximately the same.

True enough. However, even with the factory grips, I find the Para and similar double stack guns will print more readily than the KUC because of the relatively sharply defined edges on the basically rectangular cross section of the bottom of the grip. Tapering seems to help clothing to "flow" around the grip better on me.YMMV

I sure can't argue with Flint's reasoning on why he carries the larger cap gun - especially since the holes in the barrels pictured indicate that he adheres to the "rule of 4's".

I guess the KUC has now been relegated to mousegun status - you know, what you carry when you're not carrying a "real" gun.

I couldn't argue with that either.

I carry a Glock 26 in a Mika's pocket holster just about every day during the summer. Extra mag in a Desantis magpacker in opposite pocket.

It is slower than IWB carry (About 0.3-0.4 seconds slower to the first shot), but much more comfortable than IWB when wearing a t-shirt.

I realize that we all have opinions on mouse guns in small calibers. I would rather have a sharp knife with some knowledge on how to use it than the gun that many people chose to carry.

Jason

Excaliber wrote:

flintknapper wrote:But, even some “single stacks” can present problems.

This Ultra carry (single stack) with factory grips is as wide as my double stack Para (albeit the grips taper). But, all other dimensions (except barrel/slide length) are approximately the same.

True enough. However, even with the factory grips, I find the Para and similar double stack guns will print more readily than the KUC because of the relatively sharply defined edges on the basically rectangular cross section of the bottom of the grip. Tapering seems to help clothing to "flow" around the grip better on me.YMMV

I sure can't argue with Flint's reasoning on why he carries the larger cap gun - especially since the holes in the barrels pictured indicate that he adheres to the "rule of 4's".

I guess the KUC has now been relegated to mousegun status - you know, what you carry when you're not carrying a "real" gun.

I couldn't argue with that either.

Yes.

So much depends on your physique, your clothing and where you carry your weapon. I carry in a shoulder rig (due to a shoulder injury) but I could also use some other type of cross-draw set up.

Because of my size (and shoulder carry), I could conceal a Volkswagen and no one would be the wiser, but that is not the case for most folks (especially women).

I prefer a .45, but do not feel under gunned when carrying a .357 or 9mm.

flintknapper wrote:I prefer a .45, but do not feel under gunned when carrying a .357 or 9mm.

All kidding about the "Rule of 4's" aside, I agree. Although the best ballistics research available strongly suggests that bigger calibers are in general more reliable fight stoppers for a number of reasons, .357 and 9mm are not small caliber rounds and a competent individual armed with either of them makes a formidable opponent who is fully capable of acquitting himself well in a defensive encounter.

Selecting a weapon system that fits one's physical abilities, body build, and social requirements is an individual process that has many viable solutions for addressing the needs of both carrying comfort and effectiveness in an emergency.

I don't favor small caliber (under .380) solutions because while they do an admirable job in the comfort department, in my experience they are highly unreliable for stopping dangerous and aggressive adversaries and their inherent reliability often falls well below that of full size guns. That's what I've seen personally on the street, that's what the vast majority of serious forensic and ballistic research says, and I think I'm on pretty solid ground there, so I prepare to defend my life with large bore fighting pistols if the need should arise.

From the posts here, it's obvious that many folks feel otherwise based on whatever sources they give credence to, and that is of course their prerogative. I respect those choices because they're theirs to make, even though I don't always agree with their premises or conclusions.

jbirds1210 wrote:I carry a Glock 26 in a Mika's pocket holster just about every day during the summer. Extra mag in a Desantis magpacker in opposite pocket.

It is slower than IWB carry (About 0.3-0.4 seconds slower to the first shot), but much more comfortable than IWB when wearing a t-shirt.

I realize that we all have opinions on mouse guns in small calibers. I would rather have a sharp knife with some knowledge on how to use it than the gun that many people chose to carry.

Jason

I can understand that considering your height but I would rather have even a tiny .22 then a knife. You almost always get cut in a knife fight and you have to get entirely too close to employ it and would have to be very good with it. Distance is my friend. That said I do carry a knife.

CompVest wrote:

jbirds1210 wrote:I carry a Glock 26 in a Mika's pocket holster just about every day during the summer. Extra mag in a Desantis magpacker in opposite pocket.

It is slower than IWB carry (About 0.3-0.4 seconds slower to the first shot), but much more comfortable than IWB when wearing a t-shirt.

I realize that we all have opinions on mouse guns in small calibers. I would rather have a sharp knife with some knowledge on how to use it than the gun that many people chose to carry.

Jason

I can understand that considering your height but I would rather have even a tiny .22 then a knife. You almost always get cut in a knife fight and you have to get entirely too close to employ it and would have to be very good with it. Distance is my friend. That said I do carry a knife.

Atta Girl!

CompVest wrote:

jbirds1210 wrote:I carry a Glock 26 in a Mika's pocket holster just about every day during the summer. Extra mag in a Desantis magpacker in opposite pocket.

It is slower than IWB carry (About 0.3-0.4 seconds slower to the first shot), but much more comfortable than IWB when wearing a t-shirt.

I realize that we all have opinions on mouse guns in small calibers. I would rather have a sharp knife with some knowledge on how to use it than the gun that many people chose to carry.

Jason

I can understand that considering your height but I would rather have even a tiny .22 then a knife. You almost always get cut in a knife fight and you have to get entirely too close to employ it and would have to be very good with it. Distance is my friend. That said I do carry a knife.

Options are good and I completely understand your view. A .22 will definitely create distance.

Jason

Distance is you friend...says it all!
I also carry a knife, but I would hate to think I would have to depend on it to save my life. A knife fight is just not something I could ever envision me engaged in. I'll stick with my .45.

-geo

For me the baby glocks are just too big and heavy for pants pocket carry. I assume the OP was meaning pants pocket but didn't specify such. I have a couple of heavy jackets that I can carry my every day carry, my Glock-36. But getting back to the concept of pants pocket carry I've tried a few mouse guns and my fave, and the one I carry, is the Kel-Tec P-32. I know lots of folks like the .380 but IMHO that just has to much bark and not enough bite.

I can handle my littel P-32 much more effectively, accurately, comfortably and quietly. I'll never use it at any distance beyond 10' and I'm quite confident in head shots at that distance with that gun. I can have 8 in a bad guys face before he can finish telling me he wants my wallet.

Walkin' Jack wrote:For me the baby glocks are just too big and heavy for pants pocket carry. I assume the OP was meaning pants pocket but didn't specify such. I have a couple of heavy jackets that I can carry my every day carry, my Glock-36. But getting back to the concept of pants pocket carry I've tried a few mouse guns and my fave, and the one I carry, is the Kel-Tec P-32. I know lots of folks like the .380 but IMHO that just has to much bark and not enough bite.

I am not sure I follow you: a 65-71gr, .309" diameter bullet (800-933gr/sq") moving at 900-925 fps is supposed to have more "bite" than a 90-95gr, .355" diameter bullet (909-960gr/sq") moving at 980-1000 fps? I just lifted those numbers from Wikipedia, so if someone knows these are wrong, I will defer to your findings.

Walkin' Jack wrote:I can handle my littel P-32 much more effectively, accurately, comfortably and quietly. I'll never use it at any distance beyond 10' and I'm quite confident in head shots at that distance with that gun. I can have 8 in a bad guys face before he can finish telling me he wants my wallet.

I must admit it sounds like you have a really nice pair of dragon-blocking sunglasses*.

*term borrowed from Marc "Animal" MacYoung

I tried a lot of small auto's when I was deciding what to carry. I am small and needed a small gun, I ended up with a Kahr PM9 all black with nite sights carried in a High Noon IWB "hidden ally" tuckable. It's absolutely perfect. I love the gun and the holster. I had no problems with the PM9 during or after the 200 round suggested break in period. Just MHO.

I posted the pics somewhere else here a few months ago, but just for size reference these are a Kahr PM9, Kel-Tec P3AT, and a Seecamp .32:









I've described my poor P3AT before, but the Seecamp and Kahr both run well. I generally don't pocket-carry the Kahr, but that's where the Seecamp goes. These two are my BUGs, and I add a Glock 27 to that role when dress permits. The G27 gets carried once in a while by itself, but I consider the PM9 and Seecamp as secondaries only, even though the PM9 has done "tuxedo duty" before.