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styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

Many including myself have worn the uniform during times of conflict.

Wearing the uniform is not an automatic qualifier to be able to stand up to tyranny nor is not wearing it a disqualifier.

You might consider a lot of the written word of patriots on this forum as sabre rattling. To an extent some of it is. You are nnot aware of discussions in the background among members whom you consider sabre rattlers. Many of us share much more in common than what we post here.

I am not going to jeapordize the safety of my wife and children by choosing poorly the time that I stand my ground. If forced to do so by the tyrant du jour and if given the opportunity to defend myself against a tyrannical regime I will do so. I will also defend any brother or sister if need be.

We have our own defined limits. You have yours. Take comfort in your decision and be prepared when your time comes. Rest assured there will be events that will cause you to fine tune your decision.

Amygunanywhere

styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

Are you tryng to say that if someone didn't serve in the military we have no right to an opinion? Or just that our opinion carries less weight?

Every American citizen has a right to their opinion on this, and many other, subjects. And while we may not have "worn the uniform", that does not make us any less patriotic or willing to stand up for our rights. I "served" 21 years as an Air Force brat. I grew up with the military mindset that I learned at my father's feet. I am perfectly willing and able to stand and fight, and die if necessary, to preserve freedom & liberty for my children and the rest of our future generations.

BTW, the ONLY reason I didn't join the military is because my father talked me out of it. Well, actually he said he'd kill me if I did. He saw the changes in the military between the time when he joined and I became eligible and knew that it was headed south.

RottenApple wrote:

styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

Are you tryng to say that if someone didn't serve in the military we have no right to an opinion? Or just that our opinion carries less weight?

I can not answer for him,, nor will I try.

I will respond for myself..
Your voice counts
Your opinion carries the same weight as mine.
Your opinion is viewed as someone with a vision, and ideal and a position that is brought about by your beliefs and experience. Like all others.

But, it is also true, that having no experience in horrors of combat, the conflicts of mental place sane military members have after killing another, causing others to be killed, making decisions that cause friends, fellow soldiers, to die or be dismembered.. And struggling every day to figure out why them and not you....... without those experiences first hand, your opinion is qualified in things that deal with the closing with and destroying of your enemy.
I say that with all due respect to you as a fellow citizen, and valued opinion.

I have an opinion on rape, it's victims and the scum that commit it. my opinion is qualified in that I have never been raped.

styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

I cannot help but wonder what makes some people think that having "actually worn the uniform during times of conflict" is the sole legitimizing criterion for patriotism or for having an opinion thereon.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

Rex B wrote:

VMI77 wrote:
And unlike what happened in WW2, there will be no "America" to escape to. When there is nowhere to run it's fight or submit.

There wasn't any escape to America for Jews then. We turned them away by the boatloads before and after the war.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10005267" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Never forget

To our everlasting shame. And we did the same to the Vietnamese people. America has plenty of sins to atone for.

And today, we'll send a family back to Germany to face prison for {{{gasp!!}}} HOME SCHOOLING THEIR CHILDREN!!! But on the flip side of that, we make sanctuary cities for illegals, get them on the public dole as fast as possible, and encourage them to vote illegally.

That's why democrats (and how) are killing this country.

And let's not forget the Russians we sent back to be murdered by Stalin. And oh yeah.....there are no more "illegals," they're now to be called "undocumented Democrats."

The sole function of the federal government is to assert CONTROL over "problems" that the state governments themselves are unable, or ill-equiped to CONTROL (border control, air-traffic control, air quality control, gun control, disease control, education control, substance control, air waves control,..............).

The ULTIMATE form of CONTROL is to deprive a person of their life. The mere threat of this consequence for a person's disobedience is usually sufficient to achieve compliance . The Sanhedrin, and the Roman Governor of Judea applied that solution to a Jewish guy 2,000 years ago - but it didn't seem to solve that particular "problem". Hitler applied that solution to his "problem", and the Jewish people obtained a nation as well as the resolve - "never again".

Those of us who go armed in the public square are presumably prepared to mix our blood with that of a criminal intent upon depriving of us or our families of life, liberty, or our pursuit of quiet enjoyment. The principle involved is the same - to me at least.

Deterrence works.

My sense is that - at least in Texas - the majority of citizens are now supportive of holding the line against the recent surge in oppressive government tactics.

I'm as concerned about the rise in First Amendment transgressions by government institutions as the never-ending assault on the 2A.

styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

I served four years during the 1st Gulf War and have the ribbons to prove it. I never shot anyone nor did I see any direct causalities. But, I launched plenty of aircraft out with munitions that would come home empty.

Does this make me any less or more qualified to discuss these matters?

Each and every person (well most) has something to add to a conversation and a point of view that someone else just may learn from. It would be a real boring world if we only allowed people with direct experiences to talk about it.

SherwoodForest wrote:The sole function of the federal government is to assert CONTROL over "problems" that the state governments themselves are unable, or ill-equiped to CONTROL (border control, air-traffic control, air quality control, gun control, disease control, education control, substance control, air waves control,..............).

Sorry to break this to you but the only proper functions of the Federal government are limited solely to the ones outlined in this document here: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... cript.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I seem to have stirred up a lot of comment. It appears to have generated some pretty good conversation by some, but also appears to have hit a raw nerve on others. I have my opinions as to when it is best to fight and when it is best to save the fight for another day. My perspectives were developed, as were everyone else's, under circumstances unique to me. I respect the fact that everyone has the right to their opinion. However, when people seem to be endorsing that intentional violence be triggered and conducted in only the way they believe is most effective, I just happen to have a personal tendency to listen more closely to certain folks over others.

Molon Labe!!!!!

styxx wrote:I cannot help but to wonder how many of the saber rattlers on this thread have actually worn the uniform during times of conflict. I hear and listen far more closely to the thoughts of folks like irpettit and suthdj and E.Marques than any of the sabre rattlers.

I wore the uniform for six years during the Vietnam war. Like many of my brothers, I never set foot in Vietnam. Nor did I see any combat. So I guess, by your standards, my opinions about current events and my willingness to stand up for the Constitution are to be questioned.

More to the point, not one of the men who fought in the Revolutionary War had ever seen combat. Yet somehow they mustered the courage and the fortitude to fight and defeat the greatest army in the world at that time.

Never underestimate what a man can do when pushed. Some will surprise you.

It's enough for me that everyone on this forum has chosen to get a CHL. That indicates a level of commitment and awareness that places them in the top 3% of the nation. I doubt very many of them would run from conflict, especially if they knew conflict was coming to them whether they wanted it or not.

We all have a responsibility to defend the Constitution. However, how we defend it is our own choice, some will take up arms. some will write letters, some will make bombs you do what you can, when you can and stay alive long enough to make a difference. If you choose to go out in a blaze of glory when they come for your guns that is your choice. I think it would be foolish and that is my opinion. We will never all agree on how it is done or where, when etc.... So lets all agree on yes, we have a responsibility. How is irrelevant. You can't make a difference when your dead.

"store it", and live to fight another day

suthdj wrote:We all have a responsibility to defend the Constitution. However, how we defend it is our own choice, some will take up arms. some will write letters, some will make bombs you do what you can, when you can and stay alive long enough to make a difference. If you choose to go out in a blaze of glory when they come for your guns that is your choice. I think it would be foolish and that is my opinion. We will never all agree on how it is done or where, when etc.... So lets all agree on yes, we have a responsibility. How is irrelevant. You can't make a difference when your dead.

Tell that to defenders of the Alamo.