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It's definitely good that everything turned out well, kudos for not being confrontational yourself and just trying to stop the problem advancing.

My concern with saying I'm armed in a situation like this is it almost seems like you potentially help the BG. What if he too has a gun but doesn't have it out yet? This might make him get it or take it out. Almost like a warning shot that causes further escalation. Don't know, hope to never encounter it myself.

gringo pistolero wrote:

texanjoker wrote:I won't critique anything since it worked for you. I too would have liked to have been the fly on the wall. I have responded to a LOT of road rages and even witnessed some before taking action. In my experience they usually they escalate to the point both drivers have done something to antagonize the other driver. Not saying this happened in your case, just what I've seen working as a LEO.

From the OP, it seems pretty clear that was the case here. The other driver seemed upset at the speed the OP was driving and the OP seemed upset at the following distance of the other driver. I'm in no way suggesting the other driver was reasonable, only that there was mutual antagonism that escalated before the threat of deadly force.

Correct from his point of view that is the case. There are two sides to every story and for an investigation to be complete one hears all sides and then make a determination, which is what the deputy did. That doesn't mean the OP did or did not add fuel to the fire. I recall one road rage I worked where both were at fault. We went to arrest the primary aggressor and he attacked us with a knife. It didn't end well for him.

jbarn wrote:
So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun? How about a person who pushes you? Shoot him? I ask these questions to provoke thought.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. These were not normal circumstances.

The other driver had already become the aggressor.
They had been tailgating the OP.
They passed the OP at a high rate of speed.
They blocked the road to prevent the OP from advancing.
They left their vehicle and advanced on the OP.

The non-verbal cues this other driver was giving off definitely pointed toward a willingness to engage in violent behavior. To think otherwise would be to willfully remain in condition white. The OP simply readied his weapon to make it more likely that he would have the advantage if the other driver continued to advance.

KC5AV wrote:

jbarn wrote:
So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun? How about a person who pushes you? Shoot him? I ask these questions to provoke thought.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. These were not normal circumstances.

The other driver had already become the aggressor.
They had been tailgating the OP.
They passed the OP at a high rate of speed.
They blocked the road to prevent the OP from advancing.
They left their vehicle and advanced on the OP.

The non-verbal cues this other driver was giving off definitely pointed toward a willingness to engage in violent behavior. To think otherwise would be to willfully remain in condition white. The OP simply readied his weapon to make it more likely that he would have the advantage if the other driver continued to advance.

Agreed. What the OP described would be considered a text-book example of an escalation continuum where the OP's increased readiness was only in reaction to each progressively aggressive action of the other driver. This is a topic that's given a pretty fair amount of time in the NRA Personal Protection class.

I can only think the other guy was an un-provoked maniac, or that he didn't realize he'd run a Stop sign and thought the OP pulled-out in front of him, in which case he was a provoked maniac.

TomsTXCHL wrote:I can only think the other guy was an un-provoked maniac, or that he didn't realize he'd run a Stop sign and thought the OP pulled-out in front of him, in which case he was a provoked maniac.

Some people take things too personally. I have inadvertently cut off people. If I have the opportunity I will "apologize" to the affected driver. Some people rationalize that the other person did it on purpose and can't control their temper. I think this is the cause of most "road rages".

WildBill wrote:

TomsTXCHL wrote:I can only think the other guy was an un-provoked maniac, or that he didn't realize he'd run a Stop sign and thought the OP pulled-out in front of him, in which case he was a provoked maniac.

Some people take things too personally. I have inadvertently cut off people. If I have the opportunity I will "apologize" to the affected driver. Some people rationalize that the other person did it on purpose and can't control their temper. I think this is the cause of most "road rages".

Agreed. Even if the other driver didn't have a stop sign, and the OP did actually cut them off, the other driver escalated the situation way beyond what was needed.

I went ahead and filed a request for the report from montgomery county sherrif's office. should be interesting. no charge since i'm the complainant. :)

WildBill wrote:

TomsTXCHL wrote:I can only think the other guy was an un-provoked maniac, or that he didn't realize he'd run a Stop sign and thought the OP pulled-out in front of him, in which case he was a provoked maniac.

Some people take things too personally. I have inadvertently cut off people. If I have the opportunity I will "apologize" to the affected driver. Some people rationalize that the other person did it on purpose and can't control their temper. I think this is the cause of most "road rages".

I don't think it's a case of "can't control their temper," it's don't care to or won't. Watch that same person in the muddle of a tantrum quiet down when superior force is shown. Some of the hostile acts are for that individuals bragging rights and think most are just bullies.

MeMelYup wrote:

WildBill wrote:

TomsTXCHL wrote:I can only think the other guy was an un-provoked maniac, or that he didn't realize he'd run a Stop sign and thought the OP pulled-out in front of him, in which case he was a provoked maniac.

Some people take things too personally. I have inadvertently cut off people. If I have the opportunity I will "apologize" to the affected driver. Some people rationalize that the other person did it on purpose and can't control their temper. I think this is the cause of most "road rages".

I don't think it's a case of "can't control their temper," it's don't care to or won't. Watch that same person in the muddle of a tantrum quiet down when superior force is shown. Some of the hostile acts are for that individuals bragging rights and think most are just bullies.

That may be the definition of a bully.

TexasCajun wrote:

KC5AV wrote:

jbarn wrote:
So your only tool for a person yelling is your gun? How about a person who pushes you? Shoot him? I ask these questions to provoke thought.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with you. These were not normal circumstances.

The other driver had already become the aggressor.
They had been tailgating the OP.
They passed the OP at a high rate of speed.
They blocked the road to prevent the OP from advancing.
They left their vehicle and advanced on the OP.

The non-verbal cues this other driver was giving off definitely pointed toward a willingness to engage in violent behavior. To think otherwise would be to willfully remain in condition white. The OP simply readied his weapon to make it more likely that he would have the advantage if the other driver continued to advance.

Agreed. What the OP described would be considered a text-book example of an escalation continuum where the OP's increased readiness was only in reaction to each progressively aggressive action of the other driver. This is a topic that's given a pretty fair amount of time in the NRA Personal Protection class.

MeMelYup wrote: ...
.... Watch that same person in the muddle of a tantrum quiet down when superior force is shown. ...

For example, http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 23#p889615" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

kingpinGT wrote:I went ahead and filed a request for the report from montgomery county sherrif's office. should be interesting. no charge since i'm the complainant. :)

That is why I recommended you do it. It may say nothing or give a nice synopsis.

Wes wrote:It's definitely good that everything turned out well, kudos for not being confrontational yourself and just trying to stop the problem advancing.

My concern with saying I'm armed in a situation like this is it almost seems like you potentially help the BG. What if he too has a gun but doesn't have it out yet? This might make him get it or take it out. Almost like a warning shot that causes further escalation. Don't know, hope to never encounter it myself.

One might consider saying "I'm prepared to defend my family and myself if attacked."

It conveys the necessary information without the hot button of mentioning a firearm.

It's a clear, very reasonable warning that sounds good on a 911 tape, and the controlled ambiguity is disconcerting to those who are not too chemically impaired to recognize it.

Excaliber wrote:

Wes wrote:It's definitely good that everything turned out well, kudos for not being confrontational yourself and just trying to stop the problem advancing.

My concern with saying I'm armed in a situation like this is it almost seems like you potentially help the BG. What if he too has a gun but doesn't have it out yet? This might make him get it or take it out. Almost like a warning shot that causes further escalation. Don't know, hope to never encounter it myself.

One might consider saying "I'm prepared to defend my family and myself if attacked."

It conveys the necessary information without the hot button of mentioning a firearm.

It's a clear, very reasonable warning that sounds good on a 911 tape, and the controlled ambiguity is disconcerting to those who are not too chemically impaired to recognize it.

100% behind you on this, but I will say this: I honestly don't even remember what I said. I do remember saying "I am armed", and that was based on something a CHL instructor once told me to do.

other than that, I have no clue. I couldn't even really remember the color of the car