TexasCHLforum.com

Although the video appears to show an unjustified shoot, the camera does not see the scene from the officers' viewpoint.

I'm not calling this one good or bad yet because:

- the video doesn't show the subject's left hand

- I can't make out whether there was a weapon in the subject's waistband or not

- I can't make out whether the suspect's hands dropped before the shots or after the shots

- both deputies fired at virtually the same moment, which suggests to me they both saw something they read as a deadly threat.

I'll be following this investigation closely. However it turns out, there will be something to be learned from it.

On the plus side, it looks like this may have been the push that Bexar County needed to open up their coffers. They approved the money needed for body cams.

The district attorney said there is another video that was shot much closer but they have not released it. I bet body cameras would have been helpful.

Apparently, the resistence wasn't due to funding or data storage/management issues. A better video might have gone a long way to clear up the controversy. It's a shame they waited until after another apparent bad situation happened.

I bet if the other video showed it was a good shoot it would have already been released.

Taypo wrote:On the plus side, it looks like this may have been the push that Bexar County needed to open up their coffers. They approved the money needed for body cams.

That's a choice that will save them money long term by decreased use of force and associated lawsuits, not to mention the time and effort spent investigating bogus claims against otherwise good officers. There is absolutely no excuse not to have cameras on every officer, IMHO.

cb1000rider wrote:

Taypo wrote:On the plus side, it looks like this may have been the push that Bexar County needed to open up their coffers. They approved the money needed for body cams.

That's a choice that will save them money long term by decreased use of force and associated lawsuits, not to mention the time and effort spent investigating bogus claims against otherwise good officers. There is absolutely no excuse not to have cameras on every officer, IMHO.

I agree with you completely. I'm amazed that Dallas PD is just now starting to issue them. Post Ferguson, if you're wearing a badge and NOT a cam, you're asking for trouble.

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

Are you serious?

The point where she's standing on her front lawn bleeding from a knife wound is the point where she gets a pass for emptying a mag into him. If HE was in the same position, then HE would get a pass for doing the same.

Do NOT attempt to read any gender bias into what I post. My wife, and those of a lot of the members here, is more than capable of handling herself. At no point did I imply that ANY woman was a fragile little liar.

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

I understand everyone's points, but I think you folks are talking past each other, at least to some extent.

Does family violence exist? Yes.
Are men the offender in most cases? Yes.
Are women sometimes the aggressor? Yes.
Do women make false allegations of abuse? Yes.
Are complaints by women almost always believed to be true? Yes.
Are false complaints used in divorces, post-divorce, and revenge settings? Yes.
Have men been falsely convicted of physical or sexual abuse? Yes.
Do these men realistically have any legal recourse? No.

Those who say "she said it, so I believe it, thus he deserved to die" ignore reality and buy into the media hype. Before someone asks, no, I've never been accused of family violence. But as a COP and attorney, I know quite well that there are people who will lie to get what they want or what they feel like they deserve. "Family violence," "sexual predator" and many other phrases are buzz words both in society and the judicial system and there are people who know how to play the system and the public.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

I understand everyone's points, but I think you folks are talking past each other, at least to some extent.

Does family violence exist? Yes.
Are men the offender in most cases? Yes.
Are women sometimes the aggressor? Yes.
Do women make false allegations of abuse? Yes.
Are complaints by women almost always believed to be true? Yes.
Are false complaints used in divorces, post-divorce, and revenge settings? Yes.
Have men been falsely convicted of physical or sexual abuse? Yes.
Do these men realistically have any legal recourse? No.

Those who say "she said it, so I believe it, thus he deserved to die" ignore reality and buy into the media hype. Before someone asks, no, I've never been accused of family violence. But as a COP and attorney, I know quite well that there are people who will lie to get what they want or what they feel like they deserve. "Family violence," "sexual predator" and many other phrases are buzz words both in society and the judicial system and there are people who know how to play the system and the public.

Chas.

I think we can all agree on that. I have had the finger pointed at me once before about something I didn't do. Fortunately for me, the evidence was in my favor. I find it hard to believe that the woman would gash her own head to get the guy arrested when everyone knows saying he beat her would of sufficed. Pacing around aggressively like a caveman and fighting with the police for 20 minutes also makes me believe he was not innocent in this particular case.

Reports that a 2nd video shows the man to have been holding a knife in his other hand

http://www.ksat.com/news/local/two-vide ... ooting-man_

and they say this vid will NOT be released

we will see about that !

SA_Steve wrote:and they say this vid will NOT be released

we will see about that !

Where did they say it will not be released? I haven't had a chance to watch the interview.

This quote is concerning to me and makes it appear that it was not a justified shoot.

Bexar County District Attorney Nicholas LaHood told CNN that the second video is "a better view to make an assessment on what happened. It is a closer view and a better angle."

He also characterized the second video as "troubling." He added that the FBI has joined the investigation into Flores' death.

If this is the case, then they need to release the video posthaste. Interesting they wouldn't identify who said this.

The second video shows Flores holding a knife as he's shot, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Wednesday.

Hope it comes out and is obvious it is a justified shoot.