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Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:32 pm
by G26ster
Whenever the 1911 vs. Glock discussions re-appear, I'm always reminded of the following quote from the book "War Baby":
"When in 1941, the Army was looking to replace the M1911 pistol with the M1 Carbine, speaking of the pistol, the ARMY R&D published the following, “This weapon (the M1911) was primarily for defensive purposes since its effective range is limited to not more than 25 yards, except when handled by an expert. Its ineffectiveness was well proven by the amazingly small number of casualties it inflicted upon enemy troops during WWI as revealed by post-war inspection of German casualty lists and hospital records.”
Also, I have to wonder how many defenders of either the 1911, or the Glock (and I own both), have ever actually had to use one in a real life self defense situation to really know with certainty just how well they will perform (the gun and themselves).
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:38 pm
by Pawpaw
LabRat wrote:My daughter told them: "No 1911...no date."
Smart girl!!!
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:44 pm
by VoiceofReason
G26ster wrote:Whenever the 1911 vs. Glock discussions re-appear, I'm always reminded of the following quote from the book "War Baby":
"When in 1941, the Army was looking to replace the M1911 pistol with the M1 Carbine, speaking of the pistol, the ARMY R&D published the following, “This weapon (the M1911) was primarily for defensive purposes since its effective range is limited to not more than 25 yards, except when handled by an expert. Its ineffectiveness was well proven by the amazingly small number of casualties it inflicted upon enemy troops during WWI as revealed by post-war inspection of German casualty lists and hospital records.”
Also, I have to wonder how many defenders of either the 1911, or the Glock (and I own both), have ever actually had to use one in a real life self defense situation to really know with certainty just how well they will perform (the gun and themselves).
They must have had something going for them, they were used in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. Sounds like someone in R&D was getting a little money to trash the 1911.
Also that doesn’t make any sense.
"When in 1941, the Army was looking to replace the M1911 pistol with the M1 Carbine,”
Replacing a pistol with a rifle? Sort of defeats the purpose that a pistol was issued for.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:57 pm
by G26ster
VoiceofReason wrote:
They must have had something going for them, they were used in WWII, Korea, and Viet Nam. Sounds like someone in R&D was getting a little money to trash the 1911.
True, as the M1 Carbine never did
replace the 1911. I was pointing out the research done on casualties from German records. Same would probably be true for any hand gun.
I carried a 1911 in Korea ('64-'65) in the mechanized infantry. Never fired it in anger, so to speak, but it was a lot lighter than the M1/M14 I humped all over the mountains in Korea my previous tour as a non-mechanized grunt
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:02 pm
by Pawpaw
VoiceofReason wrote:Replacing a pistol with a rifle? Sort of defeats the purpose that a pistol was issued for.
Not really. A pistol is largely a defensive weapon. That's fine if you also have a rifle, but many of the troops it was originally intended for only had the pistol. When rear echelon troops, mortar crews, etc. had to fight, the carbine was a better choice. It's more accurate, with less training, and at longer distances than the pistol. When not in use, it is bulkier, but not as bulky and heavy as a Garand.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:47 pm
by VoiceofReason
Pawpaw wrote:VoiceofReason wrote:Replacing a pistol with a rifle? Sort of defeats the purpose that a pistol was issued for.
Not really. A pistol is largely a defensive weapon. That's fine if you also have a rifle, but many of the troops it was originally intended for only had the pistol. When rear echelon troops, mortar crews, etc. had to fight, the carbine was a better choice. It's more accurate, with less training, and at longer distances than the pistol. When not in use, it is bulkier, but not as bulky and heavy as a Garand.
You are right that
“many of the troops it was originally intended for only had the pistol”
. Flame Thrower operators, machine gunners, pilots etc. could not carry their equipment or fly a plane plus carry a rifle. They also needed something they could keep on them that they could get to quickly.
I believe the 1911 was designed with soldiers in mind that came from big cities and never had fired a gun. The thumb safety and the grip safety probably saved a lot of lives due to accidental discharges.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:11 pm
by Sidro
I always love to see this discussion come up. I am somewhat biased as to my favorite. I just looked at the 20 odd pistols in my safe just to make sure someone hadn't slipped a Glock in there. None seen in there at all. Plenty of examples from JMB but nothing from Gaston.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:24 pm
by Lynyrd
Right2Carry wrote:
Gonna buy my first one next week. Waited long enough, I think.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 7:45 pm
by Javier730
flintknapper wrote:Abraham wrote:Yep, it'll go pew pew pew 8 times and then it's outta juice...A Glock .45 caliber on the other hand will go pew, pew, pew 10/13 times before it's outta juice (plus, it's dependable)
Hi capacity 1911's have been around for quite awhile. I've been carrying one (13 round) for 20 years. Best of both worlds.
Glocks do enjoy a well deserved reputation for dependability, but MY 1911 is easily their equal.
I just can't bring myself to buy a Glock for several reasons, chief among them...is that
they are ugly.
Yeah, I know...a pistol has to 'function' first (and most makes do), but there is
no reason for a pistol to look like it 'fell out of the ugly tree and hit every limb on the way down'! Just isn't!
In a contest on which would fail first, Id put my money on any factory out of the box Glock over the 1911 of anyone who made that comment.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 8:26 pm
by flintknapper
Javier730 wrote:flintknapper wrote:Abraham wrote:Yep, it'll go pew pew pew 8 times and then it's outta juice...A Glock .45 caliber on the other hand will go pew, pew, pew 10/13 times before it's outta juice (plus, it's dependable)
Hi capacity 1911's have been around for quite awhile. I've been carrying one (13 round) for 20 years. Best of both worlds.
Glocks do enjoy a well deserved reputation for dependability, but MY 1911 is easily their equal.
I just can't bring myself to buy a Glock for several reasons, chief among them...is that
they are ugly.
Yeah, I know...a pistol has to 'function' first (and most makes do), but there is
no reason for a pistol to look like it 'fell out of the ugly tree and hit every limb on the way down'! Just isn't!
In a contest on which would fail first, Id put my money on any factory out of the box Glock over the 1911 of anyone who made that comment.
Said....
MY 1911! It not box stock, but even when it was....I had no problems with it.
Please don't make out like Glocks never have problems, they do.
Besides... if 'fail first' runs into thousands of rounds for either pistol , who cares, pick what you like.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:03 pm
by C-dub
LabRat wrote:TangoX-ray wrote:The Glock is the automotive equivalent of a Toyota Camry: seats 5, has a decent trunk, and reliable for many miles. 1911s are like Corvettes: seats 2, has some old tech (looking at you, single cam), and a great history.
Cars and guns....lotta guys here......
But let me relate a story about my daughter.
5'9".....125 lbs......maybe.
Loves my 1911-so much so I have to lock it up when she visits.
Shooting at Bullet Trap a few months back. She's rocking that 1911 with pretty good precision.
I'm loading magazines like a hired servant.
She's blond, tall and slim.....several young guys are asking...."What's she shooting?" (That 1911 has a distinctive report). (Like that was the reason)
Says I: "A 1911.... .45 cal...you want to give it a go?" NO takers for shooting the pistol.....they were 9mm Glock guys, as I observed later.
They struck up a conversation with my daughter afterwards...but they were not messing with the 1911.
I laughed all the way home. My daughter told them: "No 1911...no date." I laughed some more.
LabRat
My daughter isn't that picky yet. Although, her first choice of handguns was a Colt 1911/22 Gold Cup. I let her try a few different types and she choose that one. We're on the verge of dating, so maybe it will start to make a difference in the next few years. I'll just have to wait and see where her tastes take her.
Re: It's finally been settled!
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 9:05 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Abraham wrote:TAM,
Sounds good, but I don't buy it.
The creaking, walking with a limp, hideously prone to failure pistol is hardly XKE comparable.
Yes, many like to place the 1911 upon an altar, but it's had it's day and overstayed it's welcome.
Much like guys who clamor to trot out their beloved old putt-putt cars while smiling and waving in geezer filled parades, bald heads and white beards shining, the 1911 will always be loved by the diehard.
A souped up, muscular, high tech, semi-auto it ain't.
It's a tired, old has been and should be given a dignified pasture to die in...
Just curious.... how many 1911s have you owned?
