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Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:16 pm
by G.A. Heath
Wes wrote:That does bring up a good question though. Sorry if it's been answered but I couldn't find it. For those who have an out of state license for concealed carry, will they be able to open carry under our open carry law if we have reciprocity with their licensed state for concealed carry?
There is nothing in the bill relating to reciprocity. Essentially you should be able to carry in either manner on an out of state license that is recognized by Texas.
jmra wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:NAGR and OCT are cut from the same cloth. After demanding unlicensed carry or nothing OCT suddenly started claiming credit for getting licensed OC to the point that it's at now and suddenly I am hearing that they are going back to attacking licensed carry again. I am already hearing some weird rumors getting started about licensed OC as well, here are four of the most laughable:
Rumor 1: If licensed OC passes and you have a concealed carry license from your state while your state has unlicensed open carry then you can only concealed carry in Texas if your state has reciprocity with Texas.
Rumor 2: Existing CHLs will not be allowed to open carry, they will have to surrender their license and wait 30/60/90 days before starting the process to get a new license.
Rumor 3: Licensed OC will destroy reciprocity.
Rumor 4: Licensed OC will be the only way anyone can carry in Texas if SB17/HB910 pass.
I am willing to bet most, if not all of these are started by unlicensed carry or nothing supporters trying to kill licensed carry because they feel that will give unlicensed carry a chance.
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
I agree fully.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:18 pm
by TexasCajun
jmra wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:NAGR and OCT are cut from the same cloth. After demanding unlicensed carry or nothing OCT suddenly started claiming credit for getting licensed OC to the point that it's at now and suddenly I am hearing that they are going back to attacking licensed carry again. I am already hearing some weird rumors getting started about licensed OC as well, here are four of the most laughable:
Rumor 1: If licensed OC passes and you have a concealed carry license from your state while your state has unlicensed open carry then you can only concealed carry in Texas if your state has reciprocity with Texas.
Rumor 2: Existing CHLs will not be allowed to open carry, they will have to surrender their license and wait 30/60/90 days before starting the process to get a new license.
Rumor 3: Licensed OC will destroy reciprocity.
Rumor 4: Licensed OC will be the only way anyone can carry in Texas if SB17/HB910 pass.
I am willing to bet most, if not all of these are started by unlicensed carry or nothing supporters trying to kill licensed carry because they feel that will give unlicensed carry a chance.
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
Looks like a combination of inability to understand and intentionally spreading false information. 1 and 3 - inability to understand; 2 and 4 - intentionally false.
Re: SB17 in the House
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:07 pm
by Bladed
Wes wrote:Ruark wrote:Can anybody furnish a succinct description of the process of going through the House, where SB17 is now headed? Will we have to listen to more spiels of testimony from people like Acevedo and ignorant anti-gun politicians? And what about amendments? Will it go through another laundry list of proposed amendments?
What if it doesn't pass the House? Will that be the end of it, or will it go back to the Senate or some committee for rewriting?
There is a good discussion of what's next started in the house bill thread -
viewtopic.php?f=133&t=76719&start=120#p969961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The short answer is that the House Committee on Homeland Security & Public Safety will now vote on SB 17 instead of HB 910, and HB 910 will be shelved while SB 17 goes to the House Committee on Calendars. Calendars is where the real struggle takes place, and unfortunately, most of that fight takes place out of view of the public.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:40 pm
by XinTX
jmra wrote:
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
Both probably.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:26 pm
by jerry_r60
G.A. Heath wrote:Wes wrote:That does bring up a good question though. Sorry if it's been answered but I couldn't find it. For those who have an out of state license for concealed carry, will they be able to open carry under our open carry law if we have reciprocity with their licensed state for concealed carry?
There is nothing in the bill relating to reciprocity. Essentially you should be able to carry in either manner on an out of state license that is recognized by Texas.
jmra wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:NAGR and OCT are cut from the same cloth. After demanding unlicensed carry or nothing OCT suddenly started claiming credit for getting licensed OC to the point that it's at now and suddenly I am hearing that they are going back to attacking licensed carry again. I am already hearing some weird rumors getting started about licensed OC as well, here are four of the most laughable:
Rumor 1: If licensed OC passes and you have a concealed carry license from your state while your state has unlicensed open carry then you can only concealed carry in Texas if your state has reciprocity with Texas.
Rumor 2: Existing CHLs will not be allowed to open carry, they will have to surrender their license and wait 30/60/90 days before starting the process to get a new license.
Rumor 3: Licensed OC will destroy reciprocity.
Rumor 4: Licensed OC will be the only way anyone can carry in Texas if SB17/HB910 pass.
I am willing to bet most, if not all of these are started by unlicensed carry or nothing supporters trying to kill licensed carry because they feel that will give unlicensed carry a chance.
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
I agree fully.
I did hear the concept of reciprocity come up during the debates and it was an interesting question. There wasn't really an answer for the question that was posed either however fortunately, that didn't hang things up. The question really is broader than OC. The question that came up was that if someone with a CHL had it taken away in TX but had a license from another state, wouldn't they still be able to carry under reciprocity. The implication was that this then goes against the spirit of taking away the CHL. I don't recall hearing it directly answered and fortunately things continued to move forward. It is an interesting question.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:15 pm
by Jason K
jerry_r60 wrote:
I did hear the concept of reciprocity come up during the debates and it was an interesting question. There wasn't really an answer for the question that was posed either however fortunately, that didn't hang things up. The question really is broader than OC. The question that came up was that if someone with a CHL had it taken away in TX but had a license from another state, wouldn't they still be able to carry under reciprocity. The implication was that this then goes against the spirit of taking away the CHL. I don't recall hearing it directly answered and fortunately things continued to move forward. It is an interesting question.
I would figure that any reason that a Texas CHL would be taken away would also be cause to lose the out-of-state license. Would the court notify the state in question of the issue?
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:31 pm
by G.A. Heath
jerry_r60 wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:Wes wrote:That does bring up a good question though. Sorry if it's been answered but I couldn't find it. For those who have an out of state license for concealed carry, will they be able to open carry under our open carry law if we have reciprocity with their licensed state for concealed carry?
There is nothing in the bill relating to reciprocity. Essentially you should be able to carry in either manner on an out of state license that is recognized by Texas.
jmra wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:NAGR and OCT are cut from the same cloth. After demanding unlicensed carry or nothing OCT suddenly started claiming credit for getting licensed OC to the point that it's at now and suddenly I am hearing that they are going back to attacking licensed carry again. I am already hearing some weird rumors getting started about licensed OC as well, here are four of the most laughable:
Rumor 1: If licensed OC passes and you have a concealed carry license from your state while your state has unlicensed open carry then you can only concealed carry in Texas if your state has reciprocity with Texas.
Rumor 2: Existing CHLs will not be allowed to open carry, they will have to surrender their license and wait 30/60/90 days before starting the process to get a new license.
Rumor 3: Licensed OC will destroy reciprocity.
Rumor 4: Licensed OC will be the only way anyone can carry in Texas if SB17/HB910 pass.
I am willing to bet most, if not all of these are started by unlicensed carry or nothing supporters trying to kill licensed carry because they feel that will give unlicensed carry a chance.
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
I agree fully.
I did hear the concept of reciprocity come up during the debates and it was an interesting question. There wasn't really an answer for the question that was posed either however fortunately, that didn't hang things up. The question really is broader than OC. The question that came up was that if someone with a CHL had it taken away in TX but had a license from another state, wouldn't they still be able to carry under reciprocity. The implication was that this then goes against the spirit of taking away the CHL. I don't recall hearing it directly answered and fortunately things continued to move forward. It is an interesting question.
Reciprocity should not be affected by this bill, however some parties including some cases that have made themselves high profile(Cough, CJ Grisham, Cough) claim to be carrying under the license of another state that Texas recognizes. Some might say that this is reason to close the "reciprocity loophole", and there could be a push to try limiting reciprocity via an amendment to a bill that it may be germaine too. The problem with what CJ Grisham says or posts is I don't know who to believe CJ Grisham or ... CJ Grisham.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:43 pm
by Wes
That was my reason for the question too, as it sounds if that idiot has an out of state license like he claims then he is going to be able to open carry. That's awesome!
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:17 pm
by G.A. Heath
Wes wrote:That was my reason for the question too, as it sounds if that idiot has an out of state license like he claims then his dumb*** is going to be able to open carry. That's awesome!
I am not too sure if he has a license, nor am I sure that if he does that it was not acquired in a fraudulent manner. If Grisham has a license from another state that is legitimate then I have no problem with him carrying, if he doesn't then I am all for punishing him to the full extent of the law.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:42 pm
by Wes
I don't necessarily have a problem with it, it's more of an annoyance. After his antics he is basically getting his way. More of us benefit I know, and I don't want to derail thus thread over that. I will just be curious to see any official reciprocity announcements if this makes it through the house.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:41 pm
by jerry_r60
G.A. Heath wrote:jerry_r60 wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:Wes wrote:That does bring up a good question though. Sorry if it's been answered but I couldn't find it. For those who have an out of state license for concealed carry, will they be able to open carry under our open carry law if we have reciprocity with their licensed state for concealed carry?
There is nothing in the bill relating to reciprocity. Essentially you should be able to carry in either manner on an out of state license that is recognized by Texas.
jmra wrote:G.A. Heath wrote:NAGR and OCT are cut from the same cloth. After demanding unlicensed carry or nothing OCT suddenly started claiming credit for getting licensed OC to the point that it's at now and suddenly I am hearing that they are going back to attacking licensed carry again. I am already hearing some weird rumors getting started about licensed OC as well, here are four of the most laughable:
Rumor 1: If licensed OC passes and you have a concealed carry license from your state while your state has unlicensed open carry then you can only concealed carry in Texas if your state has reciprocity with Texas.
Rumor 2: Existing CHLs will not be allowed to open carry, they will have to surrender their license and wait 30/60/90 days before starting the process to get a new license.
Rumor 3: Licensed OC will destroy reciprocity.
Rumor 4: Licensed OC will be the only way anyone can carry in Texas if SB17/HB910 pass.
I am willing to bet most, if not all of these are started by unlicensed carry or nothing supporters trying to kill licensed carry because they feel that will give unlicensed carry a chance.
They are either intentionally starting false rumors or they are too stupid to understand the bills. I think it's a toss up.
I agree fully.
I did hear the concept of reciprocity come up during the debates and it was an interesting question. There wasn't really an answer for the question that was posed either however fortunately, that didn't hang things up. The question really is broader than OC. The question that came up was that if someone with a CHL had it taken away in TX but had a license from another state, wouldn't they still be able to carry under reciprocity. The implication was that this then goes against the spirit of taking away the CHL. I don't recall hearing it directly answered and fortunately things continued to move forward. It is an interesting question.
Reciprocity should not be affected by this bill, however some parties including some cases that have made themselves high profile(Cough, CJ Grisham, Cough) claim to be carrying under the license of another state that Texas recognizes. Some might say that this is reason to close the "reciprocity loophole", and there could be a push to try limiting reciprocity via an amendment to a bill that it may be germaine too. The problem with what CJ Grisham says or posts is I don't know who to believe CJ Grisham or ... CJ Grisham.
I know no changes regarding reciprocity made it in, that's what I was saying however, there was a short and interesting exchange regarding it during debate.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:04 am
by ELB
Jason K wrote:
I would figure that any reason that a Texas CHL would be taken away would also be cause to lose the out-of-state license...
Not necssarily. Each state sets its own qualifications, and disqualifications for have a license, and what disqualifies in one state may not appear on another state's list.
For example, in Pennsylvania, at least a couple years ago, police could deny licenses based on a negative "good character" evaluation, so some people who were denied licenses got a Florida license, which enraged the local newspapers.
I have seen on this forum examples where someone was advised to go get one from another state that has reciprocity because Texas had a disqualifier that did not exist in the other state -- I forget what it was right off, it may have been a deferred adjudication issue.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:27 am
by CJD
Arizona only requires you to basically not be a prohibited person, i.e. Felonies, domestic violence, mentally ill etc. The same standards that would apply were Constitutional Carry to pass.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:46 am
by jerry_r60
CJD wrote:Arizona only requires you to basically not be a prohibited person, i.e. Felonies, domestic violence, mentally ill etc. The same standards that would apply were Constitutional Carry to pass.
Yeah, with constitutional carry it's a mute point really. In the meantime, it is an interesting legal question. Of course what I find is that what I usually think is an interesting question is actually quite settled if I just new more law.
Re: SB17 OC Bill On Intent Calendar for 3-16-2015.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:04 am
by bigity
I could swear I heard Prat on Texas say this passed House committee yesterday, is that accurate or was I daydreaming on the way home from work?