TexasCHLforum.com

HankB wrote:.308/7.62 NATO rounds certainly hit harder than .223/5.56 or 7.62x39, but the rifles tend to be longer & heavier. (Have an M1A and an StG-58 myself) But seldom will one have to take an 800-yard shot in a defensive situation. For HD, I would much rather use an AR or AK than a full size battle rifle.

For HD, I agree, and I have an AR for that purpose. Suarez was talking about a general purpose rifle for TEOTWAWKI.

There is NOTHING inside my house that needs a .308 to disperse. If I have to take a more than 200yrd shot then, yeah I'll take my .308 rifle, but under that give me an AR or AK. Outside 200yrds gimme my .308 back.

Carry-a-Kimber wrote: Look cooler...

Not shoot through 20 people...

Not weigh as much...

Better supply of defense ammo (gold dots, TAP, etc)



I love the AK, and I have access to one, but the AR takes the win for patrol rifle, defense in my mind. If I was in the sandbox it MAY be a different story.

Get a saiga 223 and your problem is solved..... And as far as looking cooler......

ttn539 wrote:Get a saiga 223 and your problem is solved..... And as far as looking cooler......

Get a Saiga 12ga, and solve all the problems.

As for looking cool, I challenge anyone to look down a 3/4" muzzle and tell the guy holding it he doesn't look very cool.

KD5NRH wrote:

ttn539 wrote:Get a saiga 223 and your problem is solved..... And as far as looking cooler......

Get a Saiga 12ga, and solve all the problems.

As for looking cool, I challenge anyone to look down a 3/4" muzzle and tell the guy holding it he doesn't look very cool.

Except for that range problem. Awful difficult to be accurate at distance with a slug out of a smoothbore. For utility, looking down the muzzle is fine, but that's a situation that may never happen and won't make it look cool the rest of the time.

Mind you, I generally like the way Saigas look. Just sayin'.

My AK is a SBR made from a Draco with a side folder. My AR lets me change the upper for different situations. At present I can go from 5.56 to 6.8spc to .338 Spectre in a matter of seconds. For HD no one will convince me that my 12ga is not the best answer. Now, a bullpup .308 sounds like a good idea...

NcongruNt wrote:

KD5NRH wrote:

ttn539 wrote:Get a saiga 223 and your problem is solved..... And as far as looking cooler......

Get a Saiga 12ga, and solve all the problems.

As for looking cool, I challenge anyone to look down a 3/4" muzzle and tell the guy holding it he doesn't look very cool.

Except for that range problem. Awful difficult to be accurate at distance with a slug out of a smoothbore.

If I ever have a house that allows for a shot of more than 20-30 yards inside, I'll hire security. Outdoors, home defense is a little harder to justify beyond those ranges.

JustaPhule wrote:My AK is a SBR made from a Draco with a side folder. My AR lets me change the upper for different situations. At present I can go from 5.56 to 6.8spc to .338 Spectre in a matter of seconds. For HD no one will convince me that my 12ga is not the best answer. Now, a bullpup .308 sounds like a good idea...

Its ugly but here ya go...

http://www.shortrifles.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My AR: Olympic Arms (don't start with the quality wise-cracks, please) 16-inch, flat-top 1-in-9 twist upper (handles 55 and 62 grain ammo equally well) with A2 butt-stocked lower...handy little carbine with decent accuracy. Runs great and its something I'm familiar with since I had to repeatedly qualify on the M-16A2 over a period of 20 years in the USAF.

I also have an AK-derivative (Century Arms Golani) that I am going to part with in the very near future. Low quality compared to my AR. Okay, maybe you CAN run it over with a tank and it still works okay...but I just don't care for it. You can't even lock the bolt open...maybe not important in combat, but also not so good at a range, or for general safety purposes.

And finally, I also have a Mini-14 Ranch Rifle 580 series...I like this thing more than the Golani, but not as much as the AR. It runs great but just lacks in the accuracy department. Magazines cost too much (Ruger) or are not very good (aftermarket). Still, for something to throw in the truck for a beater carbine, it fits the bill. I think it does the job it was designed to do and is fairly rugged, at that.

Anyway, my two cents worth. Thanks...

RECIT wrote:

JustaPhule wrote:My AK is a SBR made from a Draco with a side folder. My AR lets me change the upper for different situations. At present I can go from 5.56 to 6.8spc to .338 Spectre in a matter of seconds. For HD no one will convince me that my 12ga is not the best answer. Now, a bullpup .308 sounds like a good idea...

Its ugly but here ya go...

http://www.shortrifles.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KelTec's offering is a little more pleasant on the eyes.

I had an AK based platform firearm but for me the ergonomics sucked. After attending a high round tactical rifle class where about half the class had the AK I was also thoroughly unimpressed with what I saw reliability wise from AK.

The AK (in US) is a little cheaper then AR but the ammo costs (steel .223 vs 7.62) these days are comparable and I spend much more on ammo then on guns. AR is also infinitely easier to customize to suit your needs (RDS, lights etc).

AK is something you use because you cannot afford something better. You can hand make crappy AK in a Pakistan cave on the cheap but AR requires precision machinery to manufacture.

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:

RECIT wrote:

JustaPhule wrote:My AK is a SBR made from a Draco with a side folder. My AR lets me change the upper for different situations. At present I can go from 5.56 to 6.8spc to .338 Spectre in a matter of seconds. For HD no one will convince me that my 12ga is not the best answer. Now, a bullpup .308 sounds like a good idea...

Its ugly but here ya go...

http://www.shortrifles.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

KelTec's offering is a little more pleasant on the eyes.

My hang up with the Ket-Tec bullpup is that it is a high power cartridge surrounded by a lot of plastic NEXT to my face...I understand plastic now a days is tough/strong...come a long way...but its not a Glock handgun. And anyways I have two hands if a gun blows up in one of them, I only have one face. Just a hesitation on my part. But I loke the looks better than the bulldog version. And the Kel-Tec model cost about as much as the bulldog conversion not even counting the M1A rifle you need to convert.

Not exactly on topic, but useful information. I hear a lot of people concerned about lack of a last round hold-open on an AK or whatever. An old trick we used was to load two or three tracer rounds in each magazine as the first rounds with standard rounds loaded after them. (Ends up the tracers are the last rounds to fire from each mag) That way, when you see the tracers, you know you need to make a mag change. Helps on weapons with no hold open and very useful information regardless should you ever find yourself in the heat of battle.

PeteCamp wrote:Not exactly on topic, but useful information. I hear a lot of people concerned about lack of a last round hold-open on an AK or whatever. An old trick we used was to load two or three tracer rounds in each magazine as the first rounds with standard rounds loaded after them. (Ends up the tracers are the last rounds to fire from each mag) That way, when you see the tracers, you know you need to make a mag change. Helps on weapons with no hold open and very useful information regardless should you ever find yourself in the heat of battle.

That is a darn good idea.

PeteCamp wrote:Not exactly on topic, but useful information. I hear a lot of people concerned about lack of a last round hold-open on an AK or whatever. An old trick we used was to load two or three tracer rounds in each magazine as the first rounds with standard rounds loaded after them. (Ends up the tracers are the last rounds to fire from each mag) That way, when you see the tracers, you know you need to make a mag change. Helps on weapons with no hold open and very useful information regardless should you ever find yourself in the heat of battle.

Good....but kind of a double edged sword...as it also told the enemy you were "reloading".

No problem...with support/suppressive fire though..