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jamisjockey- I posted something similar and elicited about the same response you did.

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No where did I say "your sign is non compliant” or did I even imply that to the guy that owns the store. I think we all by now get the point that there is no reason to tell someone they have a non compliant sign…ever. However, in my book, whether is a gun buster sign, a wrongly posted 51% sign, a non compliant sign, or even a compliant sign we are doing ourselves a disservice to just take it lying down. To not fight a battle simply because we don’t think the enemy has the correct weapon just doesn’t make sense.

"Missionary", "ambassador"-How about "saboteur"? Regardless of the warm sense of accomplishment that one may recieve from righting a wrong on principle, nothing real can be gained. One needn't mention the word "sign" in a letter to potentially get a valid sign posted; business owners are not stupid.

Hospitals and dr.'s offices are notorious for changing their non-compliant signs to compliant. My hospital changed their non-valid sign to a valid 30.06 recently, but my dr.'s office hasn't changed their non-valid sign (yet). Simon's malls are also notoriously anti-CHL, but the one I go to has a ridiculously non-valid sign. Can I at least get you to not write a letter to my Dr. or mall?

I promise you that Chuck E. Cheese won't miss you, but I certainly will miss Chuck E. Cheese if a saboteur succeeds.

Embalmo

speedsix wrote:"...But what I don't see is the logic in thinking that a letter that mentions nothing about the signs being non-complaint, will cause them to post compliant signs. That just seems nonsensical to me..."
...I don't either, and I didn't read that into your letter which, taken as it was written, would deal with their attitude about 2A and NOT their method of placing signage...I was commenting only on the futility of contesting the point with them that they'd posted at all...and I WAS being pessimistic

It wasn't my letter, I just wound up defending jamisjockey as I don't think he did anything wrong and I might send similar letters myself in the future (although I would have toned it down a little). But I do get your point!

steveincowtown wrote:However, in my book, whether is a gun buster sign, a wrongly posted 51% sign, a non compliant sign, or even a compliant sign we are doing ourselves a disservice to just take it lying down. To not fight a battle simply because we don’t think the enemy has the correct weapon just doesn’t make sense.

I could not agree more. I have posted this comment previously: "What I can guarantee is that the only thing less effective than informing them of your protest is a 'silent protest'!"

Embalmo wrote:"Missionary", "ambassador"-How about "saboteur"? Regardless of the warm sense of accomplishment that one may recieve from righting a wrong on principle, nothing real can be gained. One needn't mention the word "sign" in a letter to potentially get a valid sign posted; business owners are not stupid.

Hospitals and dr.'s offices are notorious for changing their non-compliant signs to compliant. My hospital changed their non-valid sign to a valid 30.06 recently, but my dr.'s office hasn't changed their non-valid sign (yet). Simon's malls are also notoriously anti-CHL, but the one I go to has a ridiculously non-valid sign. Can I at least get you to not write a letter to my Dr. or mall?

I promise you that Chuck E. Cheese won't miss you, but I certainly will miss Chuck E. Cheese if a saboteur succeeds.

You still haven't given me any reason why or how this could happen as a result of a letter and you haven't really answered any of the questions I have asked. Hospitals and/or doctors offices probably have signs corrected because they pay full time lawyers who become aware through their professional associations. There is no reason to believe it is because of a letter from a customer or a non-customer.

I appreciate you hanging in as long as you have (in spite of efforts to squelch our healthy discussion), but I suppose we are at an impasse.

terryg wrote:
...but I suppose we are at an "impasse".

Definition of "IMPASSE"
1a : a predicament affording no obvious escape b : deadlock
2: an impassable road or way : cul-de-sac

Also:
Impasse =

I appreciate you hanging in as long as you have (in spite of efforts to squelch our healthy discussion), but I suppose we are at an impasse. [/quote]

These cutesy little jabs and smileys are exactly what I'm on about. We easily could have had this conversation without them. Just as I said before, this is not the place for that.

Embalmo

Embalmo wrote:

terryg wrote:I appreciate you hanging in as long as you have (in spite of efforts to squelch our healthy discussion), but I suppose we are at an impasse.

These cutesy little jabs and smileys are exactly what I'm on about. We easily could have had this conversation without them. Just as I said before, this is not the place for that.

Embalmo

Ok, again I apologize. I didn't mean to be cutesy - the 'tip hat' icon was intended to be respectful.

I didn't know how else to wrap things up. I have really tried to get to the bottom of this and figure out where and how we disagree. I have explained, given examples, answered your points and asked several questions in an effort to clarify. I was not trying to jab, but I honestly don't see the same effort being given so I am no closer to understanding how and why you believe what you do.

Embalmo wrote:

jamisjockey wrote:

Embalmo wrote:

Pacifist wrote:I tend to not frequent establishments whose owners have let it be known that they would rather not have my business via the posting of a 30.06 sign, valid or invalid. If I happen to be in a particularly benevolent mood, I will, on occasion, inform the establishments' owners of their loss of business and the reason for the loss.

The thing about non-valid signs is that they don't affect us until we tell them to (and how) to make them valid; many of us would prefer not to decrease the number place that we may legally carry. The "C" stands for concealed.

Embalmo

Did you even read my posts? Huh? I DID NOT TELL THEM THEIR SIGN WAS INVALID. I posted the letter in this thred. Go back and read it.

Seriously-You need to chill with the angry (all caps) posts here; there are other forums on the Internet for that. If you write an angry letter accusing a business of having no interest in the safety of their patrons with threats of public scrutiny, they're gonna' wonder what your beef is and quickly realize that their sign is your problem.

If I had a business and someone wrote me a letter such as that, I would go out of my way to make sure no one like that could ever enter my business again by posting the biggest, most valid sign possible; to keep those angry, threatening CHLs as far away from my property as possible. I might even look into metal detectors.

Embalmo

Do you, as a CHL holder, want to actually do business with people who care not for your freedom, or your safety?

Do you, as a CHL holder, want to actually do business with people who care not for your freedom, or your safety?[/quote]

Ideally no, I would prefer to avoid everyone who disagrees with or mocks my principles, but since it's impossible for me to avoid my mall, YMCA,Toys R Us, Dr.'s office, car dealership, an acquaintance's employer and a couple of convenience stores; my compromise is that as long as I'm treated with respect and allowed to legally defend myself while there, I dismiss their emotion driven ignorance without an argument.

I do have my limits though, I won't go near any place, person, or entity that in any way supports abortion or mocks Jesus; and my entire Dixie Chick library has been rotting under a Travis County landfill for years.

M. Ball Moe

Embalmo wrote:I do have my limits though, I won't go near any place, person, or entity that in any way supports abortion or mocks Jesus; and my entire Dixie Chick library has been rotting under a Travis County landfill for years.

M. Ball Moe

I knew we could find some common ground after all!

Hey!

OOps I didnt even see this posting, I just posted almost the same subject but in Grapvine.

Mr.ViperBoa wrote:OOps I didnt even see this posting, I just posted almost the same subject but in Grapvine.

The other thread started out related to CEC in Pearland. I don't think starting a new topic was a bad idea as the Grapevine location was also recently posted.

Oh! You guys woke me up! I was snoozing so nicely throughout this thread!

I do not see anything inappropriate with the OP's letter to CC. I also understand Embalmo being somewhat fond of his opinions, though for the life of me, I don't understand his concealed carrying to his Dr's visit. I can just envision it now:

"Have you had this appendage long?"
"Long enough, doc."

"Is it always cold?"
No, it warms right up, but listen, doc, I don't feel very comfortable about people touching it, and don't you even consider holding it!"

Forgive the interruption, I'll just doze back off again.......

sugar land dave wrote:Oh! You guys woke me up! I was snoozing so nicely throughout this thread!

I do not see anything inappropriate with the OP's letter to CC. I also understand Embalmo being somewhat fond of his opinions, though for the life of me, I don't understand his concealed carrying to his Dr's visit. I can just envision it now:

"Have you had this appendage long?"
"Long enough, doc."

"Is it always cold?"
No, it warms right up, but listen, doc, I don't feel very comfortable about people touching it, and don't you even consider holding it!"

Forgive the interruption, I'll just doze back off again.......

I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who is fond of the opinion that rattling the cage of a business that isn't keeping CHLs out is flat out pointless. I didn't get a CHL so that I could go around boasting to every business owner and preaching the 2nd amendment; I got a CHL so that I could protect myself and family, and a non-compliant sign in no way hinders that. Legally speaking, the posting of a non-compliant sign is a support of the 2nd amendment and legal concealed carry.

Now if anyone thinks that the creation of new "gun free" zones or a ban on medical facility carry is a good idea, I would rather they write their congressman instead of Chuck E. Cheese.

Embalmo

I'm just trying to remind everyone that we can have a little fun with our interest. We are NOT each others enemies. Our enemies are those who would seize upon any opportunity to deny us our right. You know them, the Brady Bunch and friends. Let's not forget the fellowship we share and the ones who do not.