TexasCHLforum.com

There seems to be a good bit of discussion about the subject matter that must be taught in a CHL class. There also seems to be a equal amount of misunderstanding as to what topics fall within the statutorily required subjects. The Code describes the subjects in very broad terms which leaves DPS discretion to select/develop material for the CHL course. This did not occur by accident; the intent was to give general guidance and to rely upon DPS to flesh out the course.

The required subjects are:
1) "laws related to weapons and the use of force."

• This isn't just deadly force; it's every single law related to carrying a handgun, including but not limited to off-limits locations, procedures/requirements for address changes, displaying a CHL when asked for ID, and so on.

2) Handgun use, proficiency & safety.

• The actual shooting portion of the course is the "proficiency" element. "Handgun use" is very broad and can encompass many firearms related topics. So too is "safety."

3) "Nonviolent dispute resolution"

• This section is not nearly as broad. DPS did a very good job of providing material to develop an entertaining and useful lesson plan.

4) Proper storage practices.
This is a very narrow topic and one that takes only a short time to cover.

Every single question on the CHL exam will fit within one of these broad topics. So teaching the material necessary to pass the test is teaching the statutorily-required subject matter. How much time any of us spends on any given subject will vary depending upon our personal opinion as to what is more important.

Chas.

Tex. Gov't Code §411.188(b) wrote:(b) Only a qualified handgun instructor may administer a handgun proficiency course. The handgun proficiency course must include at least 10 hours and not more than 15 hours of instruction on:

• (1) the laws that relate to weapons and to the use of deadly force;
  
  (2) handgun use, proficiency, and safety;
  
  (3) nonviolent dispute resolution; and
  
  (4) proper storage practices for handguns with an emphasis on storage practices that eliminate the possibility of accidental injury to a child.

Well stated Charles.

While this may be the intent, it isn't necessarily being taught this way. But it still goes to show just how much bigger that section is than everyone thinks.

TBM

The_Busy_Mom wrote:While this may be the intent, it isn't necessarily being taught this way. But it still goes to show just how much bigger that section is than everyone thinks.

TBM

I have no idea what you mean. Who teaching what? What section is big?

Chas.

It sounds like everyone is aiming to make the classroom time 4 hours but the new law allows up to 6 hours. There isn't anything wrong with exceeding 4 hours if students and the Instructor are willing.

The_Busy_Mom wrote:

jmra wrote:So, how long is your renewal class? I doubt anyone's renewal class is more than 6 hours. You are required to cover the same material in your renewal class as you are in the initial class. So why not take your renewal class and make it your initial class?

BTW, I don't have a dog in this fight because I don't have to attend those classes anymore.

Wrong. I am required to teach 1 of the 4 topics in a renewal class - laws that pertain to weapons/deadly force. The test is still the same, however. So what you wind up with is instructors like my initial, who gave an open-book test. And believe me, that instructor was not teaching the full 10 hours of an initial. The instructor had the renewals arrive at lunch, gave them the info we had already covered in the morning, and then carried on. But you have to remember that renewals have already seen this information once before; it truly is a refresher. You aren't teaching renewals brand new information like you are initials. It's the initials that have the potential to be losing out. I'm not trying to make a case for no reduction - I believe in the reduction of the hours. But there will have to be some change in the way I present the material. And now that my hand is forced, I'll be making those changes sooner rather than later.

TBM

"Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

jmra wrote: "Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

I take it upon myself to research and continue learning as much as I can. Even this past weekend I took out my CHL law book I got when I took the class and took a hour of reflection.

Carrying a CCW is IMO a huge responsibility and liability so I want to know as much as I can so I can be prepared for any situation that may arise.

The more you know......

How long do you think it will be for these to go into effect?

September 1

nightmare69 wrote:

jmra wrote: "Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

I take it upon myself to research and continue learning as much as I can. Even this past weekend I took out my CHL law book I got when I took the class and took a hour of reflection.

Carrying a CCW is IMO a huge responsibility and liability so I want to know as much as I can so I can be prepared for any situation that may arise.

The more you know......

I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Learning CHL laws is the responsibility of the holder. A class whether it be 4 hrs or 20 hrs is no substitute for personal study and research.

jmra wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

jmra wrote: "Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

I take it upon myself to research and continue learning as much as I can. Even this past weekend I took out my CHL law book I got when I took the class and took a hour of reflection.

Carrying a CCW is IMO a huge responsibility and liability so I want to know as much as I can so I can be prepared for any situation that may arise.

The more you know......

I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Learning CHL laws is the responsibility of the holder. A class whether it be 4 hrs or 20 hrs is no substitute for personal study and research.

It could be a two week course and you still would not learn everything you need to know. I've said it before, I have learned MORE from this forum and my own research than any class I've taken. That is not to say the CHL class or the instructors were bad, just time restricted. As for the money issue, I am not an instructor, but I would not reduce my prices just because the time is reduced. I was more than willing to pay whatever it took to get my CHL and it was worth every cent to me! I got both the class and license at a reduced fee due to former military, but I would have gladly payed full price if that hadn't been an option. Any bills passed in our favor is a win-win in my book!

Charles L. Cotton wrote:There seems to be a good bit of discussion about the subject matter that must be taught in a CHL class. There also seems to be a equal amount of misunderstanding as to what topics fall within the statutorily required subjects. The Code describes the subjects in very broad terms which leaves DPS discretion to select/develop material for the CHL course. This did not occur by accident; the intent was to give general guidance and to rely upon DPS to flesh out the course.

The required subjects are:
1) "laws related to weapons and the use of force."

• This isn't just deadly force; it's every single law related to carrying a handgun, including but not limited to off-limits locations, procedures/requirements for address changes, displaying a CHL when asked for ID, and so on.

Charles, if you have influence at all with DPS, you might try to get them to change their statement on their website. It clearly does not reflect the law with regard to the above. (I should have known better than to quote them instead of looking up the law myself, but I got lazy.)

I predict, the cost of classes after September 1 will be driven not but instructor desires but by the market, just as it is now...... supply and demand.....

jmra wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

jmra wrote: "Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

I take it upon myself to research and continue learning as much as I can. Even this past weekend I took out my CHL law book I got when I took the class and took a hour of reflection.

Carrying a CCW is IMO a huge responsibility and liability so I want to know as much as I can so I can be prepared for any situation that may arise.

The more you know......

I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Learning CHL laws is the responsibility of the holder. A class whether it be 4 hrs or 20 hrs is no substitute for personal study and research.

however most people will now take the basic 4 hour course. That is not enough IMO, and I'm sure my view will be the minority. This will be interesting to see what other states do about carry agreements with TX. Heck maybe I can get my wife to take the course now

texanjoker wrote:

jmra wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:

jmra wrote: "Renewal CHL students have to take the same test as initial students, so every instructor must cover the material in 4 hours now, and this includes range time.
Surely, you don't think students remember anything from a class five years earlier."
Quote from Chas.

I take it upon myself to research and continue learning as much as I can. Even this past weekend I took out my CHL law book I got when I took the class and took a hour of reflection.

Carrying a CCW is IMO a huge responsibility and liability so I want to know as much as I can so I can be prepared for any situation that may arise.

The more you know......

I am a firm believer in personal responsibility. Learning CHL laws is the responsibility of the holder. A class whether it be 4 hrs or 20 hrs is no substitute for personal study and research.

however most people will now take the basic 4 hour course. That is not enough IMO, and I'm sure my view will be the minority. This will be interesting to see what other states do about carry agreements with TX. Heck maybe I can get my wife to take the course now

I don't see other states having any issue with this whatsoever. If anything it brings our requirements more inline with others.