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Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:11 pm
by cb1000rider
Robert*PPS wrote:Look, our justice system is such that LEOs are not the determiners of what is just. They are enforcers of just laws as determined by the people. If a LEO suspects that a crime has been committed, they detain and charge. The DA prosecutes those charges. A law may or may not have been broken, but our system calls for that to be proved in a court of law....not on the side of the road or anywhere else. Now, it may be determined in a court of law that no law was broken, or it may not even be prosecuted at all, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it was a bad arrest.
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The reality is that LEOs are the determiners for many people. They typically determine what the law is unless they're arresting someone of above-average means who can afford to defend him or herself.
Many charges - such as disorderly conduct, public intoxication, or perhaps carrying concealed while intoxicated leave it largely up to officer discretion. The other side is that even if you can afford to defend against it, the act of an arrest itself is inherently punitive. The record of the arrest stays. You don't get your legal defense money back.
APD did the right thing here by asking them to leave.
They chose a court battle. They'll get one.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:30 pm
by cw3van
Keith B wrote:Tic Tac wrote:Would it be acceptable for them to arrest all Hispanics? After all, "a police officer has no way of knowing" if the person is a citizen without checking.
Not quite apples to apples and a totally different situation.
In this case, the issue is the DPS officers know it is a pistol and being openly carried. Without evidence that the gun is 'a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition', then they have to act on the visual evidence that it is an open carried pistol and potentially meets the definition of a firearm, and arrest for it.
As for identification in the field, we are gun people. Many, MANY LEO's are not. And, personally, while I am a gun guy, I am more of a modern gun guy. I could not tell you that a specific model of black power pistol was a replica of a model made prior to 1899 or not without having to do some research.
Bottom line, they went looking for a fight, were told that if they just left there would be no fight, but they refused. They had one agenda, and that was to get arrested, and they succeeded. I personally hope they get charged with Disorderly Conduct for not leaving when offered the chance and it costs them a pretty penny for their antics.
100% with your comment I wanted to say some of the same things but didn't want the good folks on here to think I was just saying it because of my background as a former LEO. These folks went to get arrested & they got arrested I sure hope they enjoy having to explain their arrest record every time they apply for employment and many other times it comes up. Really have to compliment the DPS Troopers they handled this very well.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:12 pm
by SherwoodForest
Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:15 pm
by Keith B
SherwoodForest wrote:Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
Not. Those people were arrested because they wanted to push the limits. They may have well been breaking the law by carrying pistols that possibly meet the definition of a firearm. AND, they were anything but peaceful. I saw the video and heard the rhetoric they were yelling. That wasn't peaceful. And I don't need those types of yahoos defending anything for me.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:18 pm
by jmra
SherwoodForest wrote:Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
They weren't defending anything of mine. In fact, they were doing great damage to the very freedom they were claiming to protect.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:24 pm
by Charles L. Cotton
SherwoodForest wrote:Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
They weren't defending anything; they were/are making passage of open-carry far more difficult. Even worse, they are emboldened by the praise they are getting from a very small minority of Texas gun owners, so they will continue to use these damaging tactics.
Chas.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:26 pm
by Oldgringo
Charles L. Cotton wrote:SherwoodForest wrote:Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
They weren't defending anything; they were/are making passage of open-carry far more difficult. Even worse, they are emboldened by the praise they are getting from a very small minority of Texas gun owners, so they will continue to use these damaging tactics.
Chas.
There it is!
Sometimes, we are our own worst enemies. These attention seeking, hare-brained loons are no friends of mine.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:04 am
by jrandyw
Ok, I get it now. Exercising your rights is tolerable so long as law enforcement approves and it is good PR.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:16 am
by jmra
jrandyw wrote:Ok, I get it now. Exercising your rights is tolerable so long as law enforcement approves and it is good PR.
They set out to achieve a goal and they achieved it. Unfortunately exercising a right was not part of that goal.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:48 am
by Purplehood
jrandyw wrote:Ok, I get it now. Exercising your rights is tolerable so long as law enforcement approves and it is good PR.
No, I suspect that you might not.
If that was the case the many posters opposing the Austin tactics would have stated so clearly and succinctly. We do not have a difficult time expressing ourselves here on this forum, regardless of our stance on any given issue.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:38 am
by nightmare69
jrandyw wrote:Ok, I get it now. Exercising your rights is tolerable so long as law enforcement approves and it is good PR.
There are ways to exercise your rights without being a jerk and having respect for the environment you are in.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:53 am
by Cedar Park Dad
jrandyw wrote:Ok, I get it now. Exercising your rights is tolerable so long as law enforcement approves and it is good PR.
Evidently you're getting very little.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:01 am
by texanjoker
SherwoodForest wrote:Reality check. Those folks at the Capitol were engaged in a peaceful, and lawful assembly, and were violating NO TEXAS LAW.
The Travis County D.A.'s office did not like the message they were communicating plain & simple.
These people that were arrested Sunday were defending YOUR Texas Constitution.
Actually the Texas DPS made the arrests. Travis County DA's office had nothing to do with that nor will they ever. This case should be prosecuted by the Travis County attorney
. They were arrested because they were not smart enough to cooperate or leave when warned. They also got what they wanted. In their little crowd they will be heroes, but to the majority of us they are hurting our gun rights. Maybe next time they will look up the word peaceful before setting out. I would have liked to see some of the crowd arrested as well. The troopers showed great restraint and did a remarkable job with the in your face tactics by these "peaceful" protesters. We don't want that image of Texas for all the tourists visiting the capital.
Now they are calling for a protest at TX DPS hq in December. That should be interesting. I might have to go just for the show.
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:06 am
by Abraham
Open carry zealots aren't helping their cause...
Re: Two arrested at Austin Capitol during open carry rally
Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:18 am
by SherwoodForest
...... " I just wish those rabble rousing troublemakers wouldn't do that..... They keep this sort of thing up......next thing you know ...we won't even be allowed into Woolworth's or on them buses at all......."
I'm going to agree to disagree. Carry on..................