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rp_photo wrote:IMHO, the jury rendered the correct decision and unjust, outdated marijuana laws are responsible for the officer's tragic death.

While I agree marijuana laws are outdated, I don't agree they are the reason for this tragedy. I would blame the abusive utilization of no knock warrants. A no knock warrant on my home will result in a shoot out. Why? Because innocent people are not likely to think It is the police!!! No matter how many times they scream police! Any thug can scream police and quite frankly, I am not sure I would hear anything a person crashing through my door says anyway.

03Lightningrocks wrote:A no knock warrant on my home will result in a shoot out. Why? Because innocent people are not likely to think It is the police!!! No matter how many times they scream police! Any thug can scream police and quite frankly, I am not sure I would hear anything a person crashing through my door says anyway.

No knock break-ins in the middle of the night are the hallmark of a police state and are unamerican. Besides, if they just turn the plumbing shut off valve, then won't it be impossible to flush away evidence?

Mistakes with no knock warrants cost police lives and innocent homeowner lives. If you are innocent until proven guilty then wouldn't it be wrong to end two lives by breaking into an innocent man's home?

Have enough layers of security in place to slow down a break-in enough to allow you 5 min to dial 911 to determine if it is police or a BG.

rp_photo wrote:IMHO, the jury rendered the correct decision and unjust, outdated marijuana laws are responsible for the officer's tragic death.

Note that the homeowner was still charged with a 3rd degree felony for possessing a firearm where drugs were present.

So he hasn't escaped from this without serious trouble.

Personally, someone who has two marijuana plants in their home and also has firearm in their home facing a 3rd degree felony is ridiculous. I have guns in my house. Does this mean if my 20 year old son brought a couple joints home that he or I could be charged with a FELONY? I don't agree with that. (By the way, just so there is no misunderstanding, no one in my home is bringing drugs into my house. I was presenting a hypothetical.)

drjoker wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:A no knock warrant on my home will result in a shoot out. Why? Because innocent people are not likely to think It is the police!!! No matter how many times they scream police! Any thug can scream police and quite frankly, I am not sure I would hear anything a person crashing through my door says anyway.

No knock break-ins in the middle of the night are the hallmark of a police state and are unamerican. Besides, if they just turn the plumbing shut off valve, then won't it be impossible to flush away evidence?

Mistakes with no knock warrants cost police lives and innocent homeowner lives. If you are innocent until proven guilty then wouldn't it be wrong to end two lives by breaking into an innocent man's home?

Have enough layers of security in place to slow down a break-in enough to allow you 5 min to dial 911 to determine if it is police or a BG.

I have a water shut off valve but that would not prevent the toilet from flushing. My home does not have a sewer shut off valve if that is what you are referring to.

drjoker wrote:
No knock break-ins in the middle of the night are the hallmark of a police state and are unamerican.

I think Drjoker's comment above summarizes this issue best. The loss of Adam is tragic, but not surprising. The actions of the DA trying to find a way to punish the homeowner after the grand jury's decision is self-serving.

The homeowner killing in my neighborhood, Woodhaven, is also unamerican. Bending the process to achieve your political goal (or agenda) destroys both the integrity of the process and the integrity of our police.

Both of these incidents have scarred me personally.
My two cents,
Nick

Diesel42 wrote:

drjoker wrote:
No knock break-ins in the middle of the night are the hallmark of a police state and are unamerican.

I think Drjoker's comment above summarizes this issue best. The loss of Adam is tragic, but not surprising. The actions of the DA trying to find a way to punish the homeowner after the grand jury's decision is self-serving.

The homeowner killing in my neighborhood, Woodhaven, is also unamerican. Bending the process to achieve your political goal (or agenda) destroys both the integrity of the process and the integrity of our police.

Both of these incidents have scarred me personally.
My two cents,
Nick

Police mistake GG's for BG's far often then civilians mistake police for BG's.

Police death rates have fallen to levels not seen since the 1800's, but more Americans have died at the hands of police than in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

I also believe it's a fundamental right and common sense to assume anyone forcing their way into your home is a BG and react accordingly unless you have a reason to assume it's police, such as having warrants, being a fugitive, or involved in crime more serious than having a few natural plants.

jmra wrote:
I have a water shut off valve but that would not prevent the toilet from flushing. My home does not have a sewer shut off valve if that is what you are referring to.

I say it's better that more evidence get flushed than more civilians and police get injured, killed, and traumatized.

I think the only time they should use no knock warrants is when the suspects are known or reason to believe they are violent and dangerous with evidence of weapons

on hand.

mojo84 wrote:I think the only time the should use no knock warrants is when the suspects are known or reason to believe they are violent and dangerous with evidence of weapons on hand.

I believe that the police had an informant who stated that the suspect was "armed and willing to use them" or something to that affect. The informant also stated that the suspect had 15 marijuana plants in the house. This turned out not to be true. Unless they were seedlings, I wonder how a person flushes 15 marijuana plants down the toilet.

WildBill wrote:

mojo84 wrote:I think the only time the should use no knock warrants is when the suspects are known or reason to believe they are violent and dangerous with evidence of weapons on hand.

I believe that the police had an informant who stated that the suspect was "armed and willing to use them" or something to that affect. The informant also stated that the suspect had 15 marijuana plants in the house. This turned out not to be true. Unless they were seedlings, I wonder how a person flushes 15 marijuana plants down the toilet.

This hits me odd because the reality is, if they believe the suspects are armed and dangerous, they should surround the house so no escape is possible. Take cover, wake up said bad guy and state their business. Give them a chance to give up. Tough cookies if the suspects flush a few drugs. If they truly have enough evidence there are large enough quantities of drugs being moved in and out of the house to justify a major police action, why not get them as they leave? I know the answer. Same reason they didn't arrest a certain hero of the people in Waco(who shall remain unnamed in this post). Ulterior motives is the reason. Provoking a shoot out that may very well get innocent people or cops shot is the ultimate in police abuse of power and law enforcement technique ignorance. It says to me they didn't have evidence at all. All they had was a good story.

Charging this guy with having a gun around a pot plant is another fine example of why our judicial system is to be scoffed at. We all know they are simply looking for some other way to torture an innocent man... In other words... A man who could be any one of us.

The war on drugs has allowed authorities the latitude to abuse their power under the guise of enforcing law and order. This is on the same level of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

03Lightningrocks wrote: The war on drugs has allowed authorities the latitude to abuse their power under the guise of enforcing law and order. This is on the same level of Hitler and Nazi Germany.

I totally agree

Ditto for the War on Terror.

The State is directly responsible for the death of this LEO by its own "Doctrine" and should be held accountable. Many Americans are not going to roll over and surrender to intruders breaking into their homes, which at one time was their only safe place of refuge. Doesn't matter if their LEO's or not, an intruder is an intruder and many Americans will respond with Justified Force when facing unknown evil. State sanctioned evil is more evil than criminally sanctioned evil when the door to your house explodes. Assuming we are all enjoying our Freedom as Law Abiding non-violent Citizens in a Free State of course.

Maybe we Texans need to Force the State to use a panel of 3 or more Judges who all must agree to approve every single warrant issued or throw it out completely and if they do issue a "no knock warrant" and they're wrong or a mistake is made they are automatically disbarred. These things should be very rare in a Free Society and not the norm. No knock raids need consequences from the top down and not just the bottom up as with this incident with Henry Magee. After this we can go after those armored tanks and send them all back to the US Capitol Building in Washington...sounds like Freedom to me.

Police State? The below is probably old news to most people here but in case some have missed it...

"The number of no-knock raids has increased from 3,000 in 1981 to more than 50,000 in 2005, according to Peter Kraska, a criminologist at Eastern Kentucky University" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_knock_warrant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 boasts 80,000 Raids in America according to a Fox news segment by former Governor Huckabee. A 3000% increase since 1981. http://beforeitsnews.com/military/2013/ ... 54350.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rp_photo wrote:Ditto for the War on Terror.

we have allowed our fear to give our government powers they were never meant to have.

rbwhatever1 wrote:"The number of no-knock raids has increased from 3,000 in 1981 to more than 50,000 in 2005, according to Peter Kraska, a criminologist at Eastern Kentucky University" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_knock_warrant" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 boasts 80,000 Raids in America according to a Fox news segment by former Governor Huckabee. A 3000% increase since 1981. http://beforeitsnews.com/military/2013/ ... 54350.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I had not seen this before. Those are some frightening numbers. We have a real threat from our very own government in this country.

80,000! That is unbelievable! That is one no-knock warrant for every 3,750 people in the whole country.

It makes me wonder if we really are a nation of such dangerous criminals.

It also makes me wonder the total number of search warrants that were issued.

I would image that at the end of WW2, there was much surplus equipment available and many returning vets went into law enforcement, yet somehow there was no temptation to militarize.