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I carry fmj in my Colt Mustang.

Skiprr wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

drjoker wrote:I don't see ball ammo as a choice. It is the ammo of choice for the masses; poor, misinformed, military, & mouse guns.

But I did specify preferred carry ammunition, as in for concealed carry. All of us here should know that ball ammunition is more dangerous to 3rd parties in a conflict than anything else.

Not necessarily. DRJoker did mention mouse guns. There are some very experienced folks out there who might well prefer ball ammo for a tiny .380 ACP or .32 ACP. (I will go so far as saying that I hope on one carries a .25 ACP; personally, I'd rather have a .22 WMR than a .25.) I don't know anyone who carries a 9×18mm Makarov, but that would also be a candidate for ball ammo, IMHO.

In fact, your first post to kick-off this thread linked to a post that extensively used information from Dr. Gary Roberts, and he said this about .380 ACP: "All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested...exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP..."

Absolutely not starting a caliber war here. In fact, my BUG of last resort is a .32 ACP Seecamp, and I carry ball ammo in it. It certainly ain't my preferred carry, but sometimes there are situations where I'd rather have that than nothing...and it will leave a mark if I have to use it at bad-breath distance.

For 9mm Parabellum and larger, I agree a quality hollow point that shoots well in your gun is the way to go. But there are valid reasons where someone might use ball.

I see your point, and I agree that it is necessary for proper use of some firearms, but in a very limited number that most would not consider as their every day CCW. I must admit that I have forgotten that some people actually use the odd calibers or tiny caliber handguns. My point however was penetration was too much risk, but a gun like a .25 barely has any to start with. I would reset the poll with it for you, but I'd like to run it up. I just don't believe in people packing FMJ into a full size glock, it is a very scary concept to me.

mojo84 wrote:I carry fmj in my Colt Mustang.

You mean the little .380 that looks like a pocket 1911?

Why do you prefer ball ammunition over hollow point?

That's the one. I carry it as a backup at times in my pocket and when it is inconvenient to put my crossbreed and hi-power on. I believe fmj offers better more consistent penetration for that caliber. I may be wrong but that's my story and I'm sticking to it until I come up with a better one.

mojo84 wrote:That's the one. I carry it as a backup at times in my pocket and when it is inconvenient to put my crossbreed and hi-power on. I believe fmj offers better more consistent penetration for that caliber. I may be wrong but that's my story and I'm sticking to it until I come up with a better one.

Fair enough. I don't bother touching .380's, as their grip is generally too small for my hand, and I can 't comprehend paying more for a 9x17 than a 9x19. The S&W shield is my compromise, but I also like the Barretta nano, which also has a slim full length grip in a 9mm platform.

The .380 has it's purposes, but maybe do a little ballistic testing with yours and see how much penetration difference you're getting out of it. I'd hate for you to compromise decent penetration, but you have a decent length barrel, so you may get fairly decent penetration out of a hollow point. But if you're lacking the penetration, then of course go with what you feel is best. I just can't swallow suggesting ball ammunition, but that's the way I am. It has it's advantages too, I just need to be a little less opinionated I guess.

Most people who ccw are not gun enthsiasts like we are. They shoot their carry guns once a year on average, carry ball ammo, and love mouse guns or glocks. That's why there is a severe shortage of 9mm, .380 & .22 ammo but there's plenty of .45acp.

my neighbor uses .22wmr ball. My wife was loading her g26 with ball for carry until I made her use hollowpoints. "Bullets are bullets. Why not use the least expensive? If ball is so bad then why does the military use it?" My uncle was using .38 lrn until I bought him a new box of ammo to replace the 6 unfired rounds he has in his colt det spl since the 1970s. Another female friend carries a 25acp with ball ammo. She inherited the gun from her grandmother. Every non gun hobbyist i know carries ball except for my wife & uncle, but that's only because of my influence.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

Skiprr wrote:

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

drjoker wrote:I don't see ball ammo as a choice. It is the ammo of choice for the masses; poor, misinformed, military, & mouse guns.

But I did specify preferred carry ammunition, as in for concealed carry. All of us here should know that ball ammunition is more dangerous to 3rd parties in a conflict than anything else.

Not necessarily. DRJoker did mention mouse guns. There are some very experienced folks out there who might well prefer ball ammo for a tiny .380 ACP or .32 ACP. (I will go so far as saying that I hope on one carries a .25 ACP; personally, I'd rather have a .22 WMR than a .25.) I don't know anyone who carries a 9×18mm Makarov, but that would also be a candidate for ball ammo, IMHO.

In fact, your first post to kick-off this thread linked to a post that extensively used information from Dr. Gary Roberts, and he said this about .380 ACP: "All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested...exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP..."

Absolutely not starting a caliber war here. In fact, my BUG of last resort is a .32 ACP Seecamp, and I carry ball ammo in it. It certainly ain't my preferred carry, but sometimes there are situations where I'd rather have that than nothing...and it will leave a mark if I have to use it at bad-breath distance.

For 9mm Parabellum and larger, I agree a quality hollow point that shoots well in your gun is the way to go. But there are valid reasons where someone might use ball.

I see your point, and I agree that it is necessary for proper use of some firearms, but in a very limited number that most would not consider as their every day CCW. I must admit that I have forgotten that some people actually use the odd calibers or tiny caliber handguns. My point however was penetration was too much risk, but a gun like a .25 barely has any to start with. I would reset the poll with it for you, but I'd like to run it up. I just don't believe in people packing FMJ into a full size glock, it is a very scary concept to me.

I carry whatever SD ammo I could find when I needed to buy more. Simple as that.
I have test fired each new brand and caliber enough to know it goes BANG, but as far as a preference, not sure I see a need to prefer something, other than that it fires.

Teamless wrote:I carry whatever SD ammo I could find when I needed to buy more. Simple as that.
I have test fired each new brand and caliber enough to know it goes BANG, but as far as a preference, not sure I see a need to prefer something, other than that it fires.

All I've got to say, is if your gun runs great with everything, all the better! My guns aren't picky about their ammo some some gun, so I'm picky for it.

.45 230 grain ball.

Charlies.Contingency wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Long post, I know, but people who are new to CHL may read this and be making their purchasing decisions guided in part by the contents of this thread. Let wisdom prevail, and foolishness die out.

I'm grateful to have such good info on my thread, but you ought to make your own "sticky" thread informing people about ammunition. You do a much better then I! If not just for my on informing, this post was to help others learn or refreshen on the topic of ammunition choices for concealed carry.

P.S. The only reason I have Zombie Max as stated before, was and is due to the availability of ammunition. But my paranoid mind is telling me I should load that XD(M) of my with regular red tips instead of green, but that's my own decision.

Again, thank you "The Annoyed Man."

TAM is full of great information. I try to do a lot of listening whenever I'm around him. And he's a really nice guy.

If I did use Zombie Max and anyone questioned it, I would merely say it was because green is my favorite color.

ive carried 230 grain ball 45acp in my carry 1911 when that was all I could find

I am by no means an expert, I'm more interested in shot placement and penetration.

AndyC wrote:

Skiprr wrote:There are some very experienced folks out there who might well prefer ball ammo for a tiny .380 ACP or .32 ACP....But there are valid reasons where someone might use ball.

I've carried ball in smaller handguns for two reasons - increased penetration and increased reliability. Fancy hollowpoints aren't much good if they don't feed, nor if they open up too soon and lessen penetration. I'm just glad that we're seeing almost none of the "stopping-power/energy dump" nonsense.

Folks would do better to improve their skills than to expect some magic bullet to do their job for them.

What he said.

Skiprr wrote:

AndyC wrote:

Skiprr wrote:There are some very experienced folks out there who might well prefer ball ammo for a tiny .380 ACP or .32 ACP....But there are valid reasons where someone might use ball.

I've carried ball in smaller handguns for two reasons - increased penetration and increased reliability. Fancy hollowpoints aren't much good if they don't feed, nor if they open up too soon and lessen penetration. I'm just glad that we're seeing almost none of the "stopping-power/energy dump" nonsense.

Folks would do better to improve their skills than to expect some magic bullet to do their job for them.

What he said.

Exactly. But in larger more powerful calibers, I still maintain that ball is a safety issue.....not because it won't feed or wound, but because of the fairly significant risk of over penetration and wounding/killing an innocent. As CHLs, our justification for carrying is "self-defense", not "self-defense at the expense of innocent third parties". We are not justified by military orders, and we are not operating under the mantle of law-enforcement authority. Accordingly, even if we drop the "energy dump" argument, there are very good reasons for finding and carrying a good-performing JHP that is as barrier blind as we are likely to need it to be, but not too barrier blind.

In any real world dynamic situation, we simply do not have control over what lies beyond the target. You cannot account for innocents unintentionally straying into the line of fire, or for the unexpected penetrability of the backstop, or for what might be going on five blocks down the street. Once you pull the trigger, you cannot recall the bullet, and you are going to be liable for what it does if it does not stop in your intended target. This is why ball ammo in .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm, .40, and .45 caliber pistols is a singularly bad idea.......UNLESS there is simply nothing else available.