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Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:05 pm
by Taypo
Abraham wrote:Were I in business and didn't welcome OC, I would put up the sign.

As an employer, I wouldn't want to put my employees (or myself) in the position of asking a customer to leave his gun outside. Even if the customer complies, you've embarrassed him or worse...

I can see many an employee as timid type personalities quavering and gulping with fear when told to tell the gunslinger to leave his gun outside or just plain leave. Most folks fear confrontation or are extremely embarrassed by confrontation especially with strangers and generally in front of an audience of other customers.

The sign would eliminate that situation.

Of course, if some nitwit decides he's coming in OCing anyway, with the sign well in place, I wouldn't confront him.

With a phone call, I'd let an LEO do that...I don't know this OCing guy. For all I know he's a powder keg ready to explode when told to leave his gun outside.

Heck, we've already had a few people here state they're going to push the limits by OCing in Whataburger, even though they know WB's anti-OC policy.
From a personal perspective, there are several business that are planning for a verbal 30.07 because they (a) don't want a sign that applies to an extreme minority of potential customers taking up window space or (b) aren't completely decided on a 30.07 policy. They're very interested in feedback, one way or the other, and don't want to pay for a sign they may not need.

Not all folks that will be asked to enforce a verbal 30.07 are timid little sheep that melt in fear at the sight of a gun. Many of them are gun folks and have no desire to embarrass a customer or make a scene while being asked to enforce an owner's policy that they may or may not agree with.

I'm a little confused by the calling the cops on "powder keg ready to explode" bit, though. If you feel like asking a customer to cover his weapon would be embarrassing, what does that escalate to if you call the cops?

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:58 pm
by treadlightly
I don't know this OCing guy. For all I know he's a powder keg ready to explode when told to leave his gun outside.
If so, he's very unlikely to be a license holder. I believe one might rightly assume 30.07 signs don't apply to smoldering powder kegs. 30.07 will only apply to license holders, whose fusing circuitry has long been known to be stable by nature.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:03 pm
by mojo84
treadlightly wrote:
I don't know this OCing guy. For all I know he's a powder keg ready to explode when told to leave his gun outside.
If so, he's very unlikely to be a license holder. I believe one might rightly assume 30.07 signs don't apply to smoldering powder kegs. 30.07 will only apply to license holders, whose fusing circuitry has long been known to be stable by nature.

Just playing devil's advocate. What if he isn't a license holder?

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:16 pm
by chuck j
Read all the links , heck I don't eat at Whataburger anyway . Very interesting and informative post , thanks .

I have a small business and plan to have a 'welcome' sign made for open and concealed carry . Closer to time I'll post it

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:46 pm
by oljames3

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:00 pm
by treadlightly
mojo84 wrote:
treadlightly wrote:
I don't know this OCing guy. For all I know he's a powder keg ready to explode when told to leave his gun outside.
If so, he's very unlikely to be a license holder. I believe one might rightly assume 30.07 signs don't apply to smoldering powder kegs. 30.07 will only apply to license holders, whose fusing circuitry has long been known to be stable by nature.

Just playing devil's advocate. What if he isn't a license holder?
If he isn't a license holder, he don' need no steekin' 30.07 sign. :biggrinjester:

Seriously, if he's not licensed, then the 30.06/30.07 signs will apply to him no more than gunbuster signs apply to you or I. He's already banned under different provisions of the law, and is not more banned because 30.06/30.07 is in place.

The signage, like most gun law, sometimes slips its traction against the people it really needs to apply to. Smoldering powder kegs will do what smoldering powder kegs do. If one walks in with a gun, it's a good idea (and potentially risky, to boot) to shoo him off whether or not there's a sign in the window.

'Course, I'm not a lawyer. My wife is, after her own fashion. She does not often lay down the law, but when she does she prefers compliance in the company of a nice floral arrangement. Stay gentlemanly, my friends.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:09 pm
by sjfcontrol
From the bankers link, what does this mean?
And, much like concealed carry, a business has two options for posting the trespass signs. First, the business can post the statutory language. If posting the statutory language, there is not only no size requirement for the sign, there is also no requirement that the sign be in English and Spanish. TBA members can sign in to get the high resolution file for the statutory sign prohibiting openly carried handguns on premises HERE.
However, if posting a plain language sign prohibiting openly carried weapons on the bank’s premises, the sign must be in both English and Spanish, appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. High resolution files for the plain language open carry signs can be found HERE.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:24 pm
by ScottDLS
sjfcontrol wrote:
From the bankers link, what does this mean?
And, much like concealed carry, a business has two options for posting the trespass signs. First, the business can post the statutory language. If posting the statutory language, there is not only no size requirement for the sign, there is also no requirement that the sign be in English and Spanish. TBA members can sign in to get the high resolution file for the statutory sign prohibiting openly carried handguns on premises HERE.
However, if posting a plain language sign prohibiting openly carried weapons on the bank’s premises, the sign must be in both English and Spanish, appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height, and be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. High resolution files for the plain language open carry signs can be found HERE.

It looks to me like the TBA has lousy lawyers. Maybe when we see some bank posting the statutory language in English only, 12 point type, we can go educate them, write their headquarters, call the news, and provide them with correct signs..... :???:

Or we just conceal and carry and go about our business. But then we'd worry that we aren't respecting their wishes, and that their shareholder's property rights should surely trump our right to defend ourselves. :biggrinjester:

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:35 pm
by MONGOOSE
I still see a lot of eye popping here in NM, and we have had it for a year or so. Saw a whole family in Sams with Kimbers on their hips and shoulders........people were bugging out. They just couldn't see mine.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:38 pm
by RedRaiderCHL
oljames3 wrote:
oljames3 wrote:Our fellow Texans are not waiting for CHL holders to correct their signage or for LTC holders to show up openly carrying. The discussions are already happening.
Whether or not it is a good idea for a CHL/LTC holder to inform business owners that their signs are unenforceable may soon be a moot point. Businesses, business organizations, and the media are increasingly getting the word out.

Educating business owners on the correct signage is not necessary. They are already getting an earful.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/featu ... eBJHPlVhBc
http://fatcatwebproductions.com/ThePape ... s-and-bars

(edited to add one more link)

Even if they are getting the word out and an earful that still wont stop them from posting signs that are unenforceable. I don't even remember the last time I had to take my firearm off before entering a place of business. Nobody posts 30.06 signs and if they do they aren't noticeable. Same will hold true with the 30.07 signs.

Honestly, for those who have never open carried before it will be an adjustment (personally I support OC because I don't like having to sport extra clothes during the hot months just to conceal) But I have been open carrying in Oklahoma and Missouri for years as I visit family and friends and occasionally you have someone look twice but if you are kind, respectful, OUTGOING, and make conversation with people and don't make them feel threatened by your behavior they change their opinions very quickly.. The biggests issues ive EVER had while open carrying was

(1) I was sitting at dennys in Missouri with my old man and I was open carrying, a family came in, sat down, realized I was open carrying, apparently felt uncomfortable and told the staff, staff were not going to ask me to leave so the family did. Hey... its their right to be pansies just like it was my right to carry openly.

(2) I had a man (same place in Missouri) come up to me and say, hey man your gun is showing, that aint legal here. I informed him kindly that it was completely legal (I even cited the Bill number that had recently gone into effect) and that if he felt uncomfortable it was his right too, and that I would be leaving as soon as I picked out my new fishing lures ;)


Open carry is a great thing. As a LE Officer, an avid carrier, and law abiding citizen it doesn't bother me in the least to supply any other LE Officer with my license upon request. I wholeheartedly believe that Open carry, with the help of good and responsible carriers will help change some of the pathetic "political correctness" and "wimpyness" we see in this country today. It'll toughen up those pansies who think its a bad thing or a scary thing.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:04 pm
by Taypo
RedRaiderCHL wrote:
oljames3 wrote:
oljames3 wrote:Our fellow Texans are not waiting for CHL holders to correct their signage or for LTC holders to show up openly carrying. The discussions are already happening.
Whether or not it is a good idea for a CHL/LTC holder to inform business owners that their signs are unenforceable may soon be a moot point. Businesses, business organizations, and the media are increasingly getting the word out.

Educating business owners on the correct signage is not necessary. They are already getting an earful.

http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/featu ... eBJHPlVhBc
http://fatcatwebproductions.com/ThePape ... s-and-bars

(edited to add one more link)

Even if they are getting the word out and an earful that still wont stop them from posting signs that are unenforceable. I don't even remember the last time I had to take my firearm off before entering a place of business. Nobody posts 30.06 signs and if they do they aren't noticeable. Same will hold true with the 30.07 signs.

Honestly, for those who have never open carried before it will be an adjustment (personally I support OC because I don't like having to sport extra clothes during the hot months just to conceal) But I have been open carrying in Oklahoma and Missouri for years as I visit family and friends and occasionally you have someone look twice but if you are kind, respectful, OUTGOING, and make conversation with people and don't make them feel threatened by your behavior they change their opinions very quickly.. The biggests issues ive EVER had while open carrying was

(1) I was sitting at dennys in Missouri with my old man and I was open carrying, a family came in, sat down, realized I was open carrying, apparently felt uncomfortable and told the staff, staff were not going to ask me to leave so the family did. Hey... its their right to be pansies just like it was my right to carry openly.

(2) I had a man (same place in Missouri) come up to me and say, hey man your gun is showing, that aint legal here. I informed him kindly that it was completely legal (I even cited the Bill number that had recently gone into effect) and that if he felt uncomfortable it was his right too, and that I would be leaving as soon as I picked out my new fishing lures ;)


Open carry is a great thing. As a LE Officer, an avid carrier, and law abiding citizen it doesn't bother me in the least to supply any other LE Officer with my license upon request. I wholeheartedly believe that Open carry, with the help of good and responsible carriers will help change some of the pathetic "political correctness" and "wimpyness" we see in this country today. It'll toughen up those pansies who think its a bad thing or a scary thing.
So the moral of the story is that anyone uncomfortable with OC is a pansy? That's an awesome attitude for a CO to be rocking.

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:51 am
by sherlock7
Taypo, I thought your comments were kind of strong; I kind of agree with those who fear open carry as somewhat in the" pansy class".
I believe that in time, open carry will become more accepted by most but I also believe there are those groups such as" moms against guns" (the pansy class ) who will never accept this and will continue to label anyone who even likes guns as real nuts and as such are a danger to all mankind!
Just my opinion!

USMC
Semper Fi

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:49 am
by chuck j
WHERE you open carry will get different responses . Walking into a Cabellas ? Walking into a gun shop ? But walking into a movie theater ? Near a school ? In a crowded restaurant ? I believe it's a simple fact .

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:24 am
by oljames3
In keeping with the theme of actual, reported responses rather than speculation:

Universities:
http://ntdaily.com/committee-no-plans-y ... pus-carry/

Two legislators with differing views:
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/polit ... 22866.html

Confused counties:
http://kxan.com/2015/09/18/counties-cha ... buildings/

Another city council meeting:
http://www.fbherald.com/news/city-to-di ... 56ae6.html

Re: Texans Respond to License to Carry

Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:15 am
by Taypo
sherlock7 wrote:Taypo, I thought your comments were kind of strong; I kind of agree with those who fear open carry as somewhat in the" pansy class".
I believe that in time, open carry will become more accepted by most but I also believe there are those groups such as" moms against guns" (the pansy class ) who will never accept this and will continue to label anyone who even likes guns as real nuts and as such are a danger to all mankind!
Just my opinion!

USMC
Semper Fi
Which of my comments did you find strong?