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2firfun50 wrote:Little Elm Tx. Went down to city hall today to vote. The entire building is posted improperly. I tried to get a picture of the sign but couldn't. I'll try again later. The sign wasn't even close.

The building contains the public library and several other offices such as Planning&Zoning etc.

A little clarification on my previous post. The noncompliant sign is permenantly attached to the public lobby entry way glass. I take it as an attempt to post the entire building 24/7 irregardless of whats going on inside.

I get the polling place, council in session, etc. Not what the sign is about.

sjfcontrol wrote:

C-dub wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote: But still probably only the area used for voting. Not necessarily the entire building. Just as they can't post the entire building for a government meeting.

Nope! It's the "premises." I did get it wrong that it was the entire day.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

Nope back atcha!
PC46.03(c)(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035
PC46.035(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building...

You trumped me by including the next part that made even more of the place off limits than what you originally thought? That's funny.

C-dub wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

C-dub wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote: But still probably only the area used for voting. Not necessarily the entire building. Just as they can't post the entire building for a government meeting.

Nope! It's the "premises." I did get it wrong that it was the entire day.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

Nope back atcha!
PC46.03(c)(1) "Premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035
PC46.035(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building...

You trumped me by including the next part that made even more of the place off limits than what you originally thought? That's funny.

Huh?

Well, at first you thought that it might only apply to the area where the voting was occurring and not the entire building. Then I said that it was the "premises." Then you added the next section that also included "or a portion of the building." I thought this would make even more of the place off limits and you were trying to be funny. I thought it was funny. I didn't think you were funny trying to be funny. I thought you were trying to be funny and I thought you were.

In a good way, honest. Did I misunderstand you? Were you not trying to be funny?

C-dub wrote:Well, at first you thought that it might only apply to the area where the voting was occurring and not the entire building. Then I said that it was the "premises." Then you added the next section that also included "or a portion of the building." I thought this would make even more of the place off limits and you were trying to be funny. I thought it was funny. I didn't think you were funny trying to be funny. I thought you were trying to be funny and I thought you were.

In a good way, honest. Did I misunderstand you? Were you not trying to be funny?

Are you trying to be funny? Why would a portion of the building be more than the whole building?

sjfcontrol wrote:

C-dub wrote:Well, at first you thought that it might only apply to the area where the voting was occurring and not the entire building. Then I said that it was the "premises." Then you added the next section that also included "or a portion of the building." I thought this would make even more of the place off limits and you were trying to be funny. I thought it was funny. I didn't think you were funny trying to be funny. I thought you were trying to be funny and I thought you were.

In a good way, honest. Did I misunderstand you? Were you not trying to be funny?

Are you trying to be funny? Why would a portion of the building be more than the whole building?

I've spent the last 15 minutes trying to explain myself and trying not to offend you because that's not what I wanted to do in the first place. Then, all of a sudden it hit me. I understand what you're thinking about. A portion of a building, as in maybe just the voting area. OMG

Look at the pretty trees. Oh, there's a forest there. I'm so sorry for the confusion!

C-dub wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

C-dub wrote:Well, at first you thought that it might only apply to the area where the voting was occurring and not the entire building. Then I said that it was the "premises." Then you added the next section that also included "or a portion of the building." I thought this would make even more of the place off limits and you were trying to be funny. I thought it was funny. I didn't think you were funny trying to be funny. I thought you were trying to be funny and I thought you were.

In a good way, honest. Did I misunderstand you? Were you not trying to be funny?

Are you trying to be funny? Why would a portion of the building be more than the whole building?

I've spent the last 15 minutes trying to explain myself and trying not to offend you because that's not what I wanted to do in the first place. Then, all of a sudden it hit me. I understand what you're thinking about. A portion of a building, as in maybe just the voting area. OMG

Look at the pretty trees. Oh, there's a forest there. I'm so sorry for the confusion!

Okay... no offense taken. Yes, that's what I originally said, just the voting area. Frankly, I don't see any other way to interpret what I said, but I'll let it go now.

And KeithB -- Voting is ideally suited to the "portion of the building" definition, as (at least to my knowledge) there is always a well-defined delineation of the voting area. There are additional laws -- no cell phone use, no electioneering, etc. -- that need to be enforced by the poll personnel in the polling area. And I would think it would be unusual for a person to have to walk through that area to get to some other part of the building. They only want voter traffic through the polling place. But yes, you are right that you'd want to steer clear of that area if you are armed.

sjfcontrol wrote: And KeithB -- Voting is ideally suited to the "portion of the building" definition, as (at least to my knowledge) there is always a well-defined delineation of the voting area. There are additional laws -- no cell phone use, no electioneering, etc. -- that need to be enforced by the poll personnel in the polling area. And I would think it would be unusual for a person to have to walk through that area to get to some other part of the building. They only want voter traffic through the polling place. But yes, you are right that you'd want to steer clear of that area if you are armed.

In rural areas it is not uncommon to have early voting in the local grocery/general store, city hall which has only one door, etc. They would normally not have segregated entrances so could be, as the Brits say, 'a sticky wicket'.

EDIT TO ADD: And to calarify, the voting area is in teh main hall in the courthouse, or right in front area of the store, so you had to pass through it to get into the other areas.

Keith B wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote: And KeithB -- Voting is ideally suited to the "portion of the building" definition, as (at least to my knowledge) there is always a well-defined delineation of the voting area. There are additional laws -- no cell phone use, no electioneering, etc. -- that need to be enforced by the poll personnel in the polling area. And I would think it would be unusual for a person to have to walk through that area to get to some other part of the building. They only want voter traffic through the polling place. But yes, you are right that you'd want to steer clear of that area if you are armed.

In rural areas it is not uncommon to have early voting in the local grocery/general store, city hall which has only one door, etc. They would normally not have segregated entrances so could be, as the Brits say, 'a sticky wicket'.

EDIT TO ADD: And to calarify, the voting area is in teh main hall in the courthouse, or right in front area of the store, so you had to pass through it to get into the other areas.

Because voters and shoppers go thru the same door, does not mean the door is part of the voting area. Any more than voters and shoppers parking in the same lot would make the lot part of the voting area. Even in rural areas, are not the voting machines/booths/tables in a segregated area? Poll workers have authority within so many feet of where voting actually takes place.

I guess if they really have the voting booths in the same isle with the baked beans, that isle would be off-limits. It would also be off-limits for cellphone use and politicking.

sjfcontrol wrote:

Keith B wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote: And KeithB -- Voting is ideally suited to the "portion of the building" definition, as (at least to my knowledge) there is always a well-defined delineation of the voting area. There are additional laws -- no cell phone use, no electioneering, etc. -- that need to be enforced by the poll personnel in the polling area. And I would think it would be unusual for a person to have to walk through that area to get to some other part of the building. They only want voter traffic through the polling place. But yes, you are right that you'd want to steer clear of that area if you are armed.

In rural areas it is not uncommon to have early voting in the local grocery/general store, city hall which has only one door, etc. They would normally not have segregated entrances so could be, as the Brits say, 'a sticky wicket'.

EDIT TO ADD: And to calarify, the voting area is in the main hall in the courthouse, or right in front area of the store, so you had to pass through it to get into the other areas.

Because voters and shoppers go through the same door, does not mean the door is part of the voting area. Any more than voters and shoppers parking in the same lot would make the lot part of the voting area. Even in rural areas, are not the voting machines/booths/tables in a segregated area? Poll workers have authority within so many feet of where voting actually takes place.

I guess if they really have the voting booths in the same isle with the baked beans, that isle would be off-limits. It would also be off-limits for cellphone use and politicking.

Don't disagree. It would be like those grocery stores that have an official post office in them, you just don't go to the post office portion and you should be fine.

However, I know of one location that I personally saw where you had no choice but to walk right through the area where they were voting to get into the store. I will admit these are probably few and far between, but if you have to enter that 'portion of the building' where the voting is taking place, then you would not be permitted to carry.

Keith B wrote:Don't disagree. It would be like those grocery stores that have an official post office in them, you just don't go to the post office portion and you should be fine.

However, I know of one location that I personally saw where you had no choice but to walk right through the area where they were voting to get into the store. I will admit these are probably few and far between, but if you have to enter that 'portion of the building' where the voting is taking place, then you would not be permitted to carry.

In that case, shoppers can't carry a cell phone either. Let's see them enforce that!

City of Pearland public works building. Don't think they can put one up and the letters are way too small.

Rusty Wrenches wrote:City of Pearland public works building. Don't think they can put one up and the letters are way too small.

Dunno about "public works "

30.05 ...

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:

(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;

(B) a refinery;

(C) an electrical power generating facility, substation, switching station, electrical control center, or electrical transmission or distribution facility;

(D) a water intake structure, water treatment facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;

(E) a natural gas transmission compressor station;

(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage facility;

(G) a telecommunications central switching office;

(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking terminal, or other freight transportation facility;

(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas; or

(J) a transmission facility used by a federally licensed radio or television station.
...

IF "Public Works" is a critical Infrastructure Facility ... under 30.05, and it's a defense under 30.05 trespassing for chls if the basis was them carrying ...


(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun was forbidden; and

(2) the person was carrying a concealed handgun and a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category the person was carrying.

perhaps they just wanted to provide the defense to prosecution to 30.05 for CHLs only, which would be easier to show there with a non-enforceable 30.06 sign ? but without the sign, it'd be trespassing under 30.05 without the defense? ...
============================================================

Oddly, it seems that's a way to "benefit" CHLs by placing an unenforceable 30.06 sign to provide a defense under 30.05 for them only ..

This place is none of those things. It is merely a storage yard and shop area

Rusty Wrenches wrote:This place is none of those things. It is merely a storage yard and shop area

Well that explains it, they just needed a place to store a sign they can't use.