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Keith B wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Toorop wrote:Thank God! Hopefully he will get a good spot in line for the death penalty!

Death penalty is off the table. Can't happen without a grand jury. And they're bypassing that.

Correct. I suspect the case wasn't presented to a grand jury because someone in the political control group wanted to make sure charges were filed. I've never cared for result-oriented moves like I suspect happened here.

Chas.

This is nothing but an attempt for the prosecutors to try and save face and prove there was no cover-up. Unfortunately it will cost Zimmerman WAY more than he would have had to spend if a Grand Jury no-billed him.

The only possible positive side to this for Zimmerman is if all the evidence is laid out for public view and he is found not guilty, then at least those who were looking to lynch him will be proved wrong. Unfortunately the media has made such a circus out of this that he may have a hard time getting a fair trial and even then there are those that would still want him to pay shooting Martin, even if he was totally justified. No matter what with this case, Zimmerman loses in the end.

Since when have things like verdicts, fair trials, or a lack of evidence mattered to a lynch mob? If it's a small enough mob you might be able to talk some sense into them, but I doubt that'll be the case here.

Dave2 wrote:

Keith B wrote: This is nothing but an attempt for the prosecutors to try and save face and prove there was no cover-up. Unfortunately it will cost Zimmerman WAY more than he would have had to spend if a Grand Jury no-billed him.

The only possible positive side to this for Zimmerman is if all the evidence is laid out for public view and he is found not guilty, then at least those who were looking to lynch him will be proved wrong. Unfortunately the media has made such a circus out of this that he may have a hard time getting a fair trial and even then there are those that would still want him to pay shooting Martin, even if he was totally justified. No matter what with this case, Zimmerman loses in the end.

Since when have things like verdicts, fair trials, or a lack of evidence mattered to a lynch mob? If it's a small enough mob you might be able to talk some sense into them, but I doubt that'll be the case here.

Oh, I never meant to imply that it would matter to them, they will do what they want; it would just show everyone else that the lynch mob was not justifed in stringing up Zimmerman.

hi-power wrote:Here it comes...

George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... print.html

Of course....it was inevitable....there is no way the governor is going to appoint a special prosecutor in the face of the mob and not get charges. This is a complete capitulation to mob rule.

OldCannon wrote:

Toorop wrote:Thank God! Hopefully he will get a good spot in line for the death penalty!

<Insert "Troll" icon>

i8godzilla wrote:I found this to be an interesting read. It is an editorial written by Alan Dershowitz. The following is from the end of this piece.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/opinion/d ... ?hpt=hp_t1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Moreover, the Florida statute provides an additional layer of protection to a defendant claiming self-defense: A judge must decide whether the defendant is "immune from prosecution," that is, if the judge believes his actions fall under the law of self-defense.

So the following mixed outcome is certainly possible: The special prosecutor indicts; the judge does or doesn't grant immunity; if he doesn't, the jury acquits.

Many people would be unhappy with such a mixed outcome, but it is not the job of the law to make people happy.

Long ago I read a couple of books by Dershowitz in which he was a little more realistic. In this editorial he's making the assumption that the legal system will play fair. Politics are already in play and Zimmerman is going to be sacrificed. His guilt or innocence is irrelevant to the desired political outcome --which is a successful prosecution and prison time. The fix is in. There are two possible outcomes: 1) they will either coerce Zimmerman into a guilty plea with a plea bargain; or, 2) if they can't get a plea, they'll court and judge shop to assure a conviction. Zimmerman is toast, evidence and justice don't matter. The Feds may even weigh in with a threat of Federal charges, either to help coerce a plea, or just to pile on for political points. Zimmerman is going to prison, and he will probably be killed.

Latest news is that Zim will be charged with second degree murder and that he is in custody. If the evidence proves that he did not lie about the events as they happened, I can't see where there charges would stick.

redlin67 wrote:Latest news is that Zim will be charged with second degree murder and that he is in custody. If the evidence proves that he did not lie about the events as they happened, I can't see where there charges would stick.

Even if his version of events is consistent with the evidence, it won't "prove" he didn't commit second degree murder. If he goes to trial they're going to shop for a judge and jury that will convict. The judge controls what evidence is and is not allowed into the court; and they'll pick a venue that has the right jury pool to facilitate a conviction.

VMI77 wrote:

redlin67 wrote:Latest news is that Zim will be charged with second degree murder and that he is in custody. If the evidence proves that he did not lie about the events as they happened, I can't see where there charges would stick.

Even if his version of events is consistent with the evidence, it won't "prove" he didn't commit second degree murder. If he goes to trial they're going to shop for a judge and jury that will convict. The judge controls what evidence is and is not allowed into the court; and they'll pick a venue that has the right jury pool to facilitate a conviction.

I agree. He's screwed.

AndyC wrote:

Jusster wrote:Sorry to hear the innocent do-gooder Mr. Zimmerman will finally have his day in court.

Probably a good thing, as opposed to being crucified by a biased and race-baiting media.

As for do-gooder...

Wikipedia wrote:The current American system of neighborhood watches began developing in the late 1960s as a response to the rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in Queens, New York. People became outraged after reports that a dozen witnesses did nothing to save Genovese or to apprehend her killer. Some locals formed groups to watch over their neighborhoods and to look out for any suspicious activity in their areas. Shortly thereafter, the National Sheriffs' Association began a concerted effort in 1972 to revitalize the "watch group" effort nationwide.

You'd doubtless prefer that a "do-gooder" walk by your family if a problem were to occur? You're familiar with the popular Edmund Burke quote, no doubt?

Yes I'm familiar with the quote, but in order for it to apply in this situation one would have to assume that Martin somehow represented evil....though I'm sure many here would classify him as such, but then I'd have to ask based on what? The same flawed thought process that Zimmerman followed when he labeled Martin as suspicious and up to no good. 

I understand the concept of neighborhood watch and a applaud all who take the time out to serve their community. BUT I believe Zimmerman stepped over the line and caused the situation that he currently faces. 

He's charged with 2nd degree murder, just as I predicted from the beginning. 

Jusster

Toorop wrote:Thank God! Hopefully he will get a good spot in line for the death penalty!

For a 2nd degree murder charge? Only an idiot would hope for that.

Proof of troll.

redlin67 wrote:Latest news is that Zim will be charged with second degree murder and that he is in custody. If the evidence proves that he did not lie about the events as they happened, I can't see where there charges would stick.

I agree, but what's confusing is his own lawyers said they can't find him. What the heck is going on in this case? This has been a cultural circus ever since NBC "accidentally" edited those tapes.

Jusster wrote:

philip964 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

Toorop wrote:Thank God! Hopefully he will get a good spot in line for the death penalty!

Death penalty is off the table. Can't happen without a grand jury. And they're bypassing that.

Correct. I suspect the case wasn't presented to a grand jury because someone in the political control group wanted to make sure charges were filed. I've never cared for result-oriented moves like I suspect happened here.

Chas.

Well from what I’ve read, Florida rarely uses the GJ unless it is for a capital offense. It would be unusual for this case to go to a GJ unless the prosecutor was attempting to pass the buck.

Jusster

You may be right, but I've never heard or read anything like this. Where did you read this?

Chas.

Jusster wrote:

AndyC wrote:

Jusster wrote:Sorry to hear the innocent do-gooder Mr. Zimmerman will finally have his day in court.

Probably a good thing, as opposed to being crucified by a biased and race-baiting media.

As for do-gooder...

Wikipedia wrote:The current American system of neighborhood watches began developing in the late 1960s as a response to the rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in Queens, New York. People became outraged after reports that a dozen witnesses did nothing to save Genovese or to apprehend her killer. Some locals formed groups to watch over their neighborhoods and to look out for any suspicious activity in their areas. Shortly thereafter, the National Sheriffs' Association began a concerted effort in 1972 to revitalize the "watch group" effort nationwide.

You'd doubtless prefer that a "do-gooder" walk by your family if a problem were to occur? You're familiar with the popular Edmund Burke quote, no doubt?

Yes I'm familiar with the quote, but in order for it to apply in this situation one would have to assume that Martin somehow represented evil....though I'm sure many here would classify him as such, but then I'd have to ask based on what? The same flawed thought process that Zimmerman followed when he labeled Martin as suspicious and up to no good.

I understand the concept of neighborhood watch and a applaud all who take the time out to serve their community. BUT I believe Zimmerman stepped over the line and caused the situation that he currently faces.

He's charged with 2nd degree murder, just as I predicted from the beginning.

Jusster

What is Florida's definition of 2nd degree murder? I had thought they would charge him with manslaughter, which I have read is easier to prove than murder. What burden of proof is there with a 2nd degree murder charge? I hear what VMI is saying, and I feel he may be not so far off the mark...but I would still like to know the "legalities" of this one, as it stands under FLORIDA law.

Heartland Patriot wrote:

Jusster wrote:

AndyC wrote:

Jusster wrote:Sorry to hear the innocent do-gooder Mr. Zimmerman will finally have his day in court.

Probably a good thing, as opposed to being crucified by a biased and race-baiting media.

As for do-gooder...

Wikipedia wrote:The current American system of neighborhood watches began developing in the late 1960s as a response to the rape and murder of Kitty Genovese in Queens, New York. People became outraged after reports that a dozen witnesses did nothing to save Genovese or to apprehend her killer. Some locals formed groups to watch over their neighborhoods and to look out for any suspicious activity in their areas. Shortly thereafter, the National Sheriffs' Association began a concerted effort in 1972 to revitalize the "watch group" effort nationwide.

You'd doubtless prefer that a "do-gooder" walk by your family if a problem were to occur? You're familiar with the popular Edmund Burke quote, no doubt?

Yes I'm familiar with the quote, but in order for it to apply in this situation one would have to assume that Martin somehow represented evil....though I'm sure many here would classify him as such, but then I'd have to ask based on what? The same flawed thought process that Zimmerman followed when he labeled Martin as suspicious and up to no good.

I understand the concept of neighborhood watch and a applaud all who take the time out to serve their community. BUT I believe Zimmerman stepped over the line and caused the situation that he currently faces.

He's charged with 2nd degree murder, just as I predicted from the beginning.

Jusster

What is Florida's definition of 2nd degree murder? I had thought they would charge him with manslaughter, which I have read is easier to prove than murder. What burden of proof is there with a 2nd degree murder charge? I hear what VMI is saying, and I feel he may be not so far off the mark...but I would still like to know the "legalities" of this one, as it stands under FLORIDA law.

Second degree murder in Florida is a murder that is a "crime of passion". So it is not premediated murder.

I don't know the laws in Florida, but in other states, if the jury doesn't convict him of the murder charge they can still find him guilty of anything from manslaughter to assault with a deadly weapon.