TexasCHLforum.com

mojo84 wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:Through all of this discussion about securing handguns in the dorms for 21yr old chl holders, it occurs to me that we've inadvertently taken the position that the anti-gunners have. We are placing the responsibility of potential bad acts of non-carriers on the shoulders of the carrier. Granted, it's been more than a few years since I've lived in a college dorm. But I do recall there being a sort of mutual trust amongst roommates and suitemates. It was understood that each other's stuff was off limits unless we ask first. And we all made sure that our visitors didn't go snooping through ours or our roommates stuff. And this was the case even when when we had floor parties - which were quite common at LSU in the early 90s.

So my solution to this "problem" would be to require the chl that lives in the dorms provide some sort of secure storage for their own firearm(s). Should they find themselves rooming with untrustworthy mates, they be granted an express roommate change process to alleviate the possibility of a bad situation getting worse. And it doesn't put the chl in the position of having to be responsible for the behavior of other people.

I don't think "we've" done what you suggest. There are very few here that seem to think not allowing chl on campus or chl's to not store their guns in their dorm rooms in lock boxes is the right way to go.

I was speaking specifically of the suggestions about keeping firearms secured in the dorms. I think that we're universally agreed on the idea of allowing chl on campus. Some of the more recent suggestions read as if the poster is looking for a solution that absolves bad actors of their actions. Keeping firearms locked at the front desk is one example. Requiring some higher level of security standard is another. And there are some who've suggested outright that firearms should not be allowed to be kept in dorms at all.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that the number of actual 21yr olds that live in dorms that have a chl is probably pretty small. So trying to develop hard and fast rules for such a statistically small percentage of a population is pause for thought and perhaps an interesting discussion. But not the barrier to the bill's passage that opponents would like it to be.

TexasCajun wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

TexasCajun wrote:Through all of this discussion about securing handguns in the dorms for 21yr old chl holders, it occurs to me that we've inadvertently taken the position that the anti-gunners have. We are placing the responsibility of potential bad acts of non-carriers on the shoulders of the carrier. Granted, it's been more than a few years since I've lived in a college dorm. But I do recall there being a sort of mutual trust amongst roommates and suitemates. It was understood that each other's stuff was off limits unless we ask first. And we all made sure that our visitors didn't go snooping through ours or our roommates stuff. And this was the case even when when we had floor parties - which were quite common at LSU in the early 90s.

So my solution to this "problem" would be to require the chl that lives in the dorms provide some sort of secure storage for their own firearm(s). Should they find themselves rooming with untrustworthy mates, they be granted an express roommate change process to alleviate the possibility of a bad situation getting worse. And it doesn't put the chl in the position of having to be responsible for the behavior of other people.

I don't think "we've" done what you suggest. There are very few here that seem to think not allowing chl on campus or chl's to not store their guns in their dorm rooms in lock boxes is the right way to go.

I was speaking specifically of the suggestions about keeping firearms secured in the dorms. I think that we're universally agreed on the idea of allowing chl on campus. Some of the more recent suggestions read as if the poster is looking for a solution that absolves bad actors of their actions. Keeping firearms locked at the front desk is one example. Requiring some higher level of security standard is another. And there are some who've suggested outright that firearms should not be allowed to be kept in dorms at all.

Another thing we need to keep in mind is that the number of actual 21yr olds that live in dorms that have a chl is probably pretty small. So trying to develop hard and fast rules for such a statistically small percentage of a population is pause for thought and perhaps an interesting discussion. But not the barrier to the bill's passage that opponents would like it to be.

I think your points are good. The reality is that living in a dorm is unique to apartments, homes,etc, so it creates some opportunity for things to happen that aren't typical in other living environments. I do think the CHL holder has the responsibility to secure his firearm to minimize the chance of it falling into the wrong hands. Unfortunately, most dorms don't have many options for that. I'm not sure that is placing the responsibility and actions of others on his shoulders. Rather, like most everything else with being a CHL holder, highlighting the level of responsibility we all have.

It won't cost them a penny if they pull their heads out of their rectums but I suppose they feel warm and safe in there.

As a current student, CHL holder, and former dorm resident, I figure I ought to put my two cents in on the guns-in-dorms issue.

To begin, I 100% support concealed carry on-campus and wish I wasn't graduating before it would potentially go into effect. As other posters have already done the math, I don't need to explain that the number of CHLs who would be living in dorms is realistically a non-issue.

I agree with the previous poster's son that, for the most part, guns in dorms would likely have more negative consequences than positive benefits (# of suicides by guns in dorms vs. # of justifiable uses guns). As a result, legislators and university officials will have issues with guns in dorms. I feel that they will likely take a similar avenue to what they do with alcohol. While I can't speak for other universities, at A&M, alcohol is not outright prohibited from the dorms. If both roommates are 21 or older, they can have alcohol in the room, but if one is under 21, neither roommate can have alcohol in the room. This is not a legal issue, but rather a campus rule. Violators over age 21 are disciplined by the university, not legally (unless they are shown to have provided alcohol to a minor).

I believe that schools will use this strategy with guns in the dorms. Non-resident CHLs will be allowed to carry in the dorm, but if the CHL is a resident of the dorm, they will not be "allowed" to have the gun in the dorm by dorm rules. If caught, they wouldn't be breaking any laws, but the school would likely have the right to evict the CHL from the dorm for breaking dorm rules that they agreed to when they chose to live on-campus.

I don't necessarily agree with that being the rule. I'm just pointing out a realistic way that the situation could end up.


Also, does anyone know how this situation has played out in states that allow campus carry?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

Mind = blown.

So after some quick research, it appears that different states have fairly different stances.

Utah: The only state that allows carry in dorms, though with exceptions.

"Specifically, the State Board of Regents may authorize a higher education institution to:

Allow dormitory residents to request only roommates who are not licensed to carry a concealed firearm; or

Ensure enforcement of rules pertaining to private hearing rooms that have been designated as “secure areas”, meaning that there are restrictions on the transportation of firearms and ammunition into the hearing rooms. See Utah Code Ann. §§ 76-8-311.1 and 53B-3-103"

Colorado: Many colleges and universities have banned firearms from dorms, dining halls, and event centers.

Idaho: Concealed and open-carry is legally prohibited from dorms.

Mississippi: Many colleges and universities have banned firearms from dorms, events centers, and dining halls.

All other states that legally allow campus carry seem to have options for the schools to restrict carry in the buildings. Every one of these states have zero schools that allow carry. No surprise, but if the schools have the choice they restrict it, even if the state says it's legal.

Not sure if I missed anything, but this was quick research.

howdy wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

How can you argue with that logic. You just have to shake you head and walk off. It would do no good to reply.

A battle of wits is no fun when facing an unarmed opponent. (unarmed - no pun intended but funny how that play on words works in this discussion )

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

Please consider that line STOLEN!!!

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

Considering it was Shannon Watts, I'm surprised she's made it this long....

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -assaults/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jason K wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

Considering it was Shannon Watts, I'm surprised she's made it this long....

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -assaults/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's an interesting thing I read today about Shannon Watts and campus CCW: http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/20 ... woman.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of posts in this thread seem to be focused on whether or not there should be guns in the campus living quarters. I think that topic is a good one for discussion, however, if the other thread topic here is related to it 'costing colleges millions..', then my thought on that is, let's not allow that as a way to block the campus carry bills this session, and not try to solve all issues at one time. Personally, I would not want to be on the side of banning concealed carry ANYWHERE, especially when/if an active shooter shows up in that gun free zone and starts shooting defenseless people inside a room or building where concealed carry was not allowed.

Get the bills through and on the books, then get a study going addressing the cost of safe storage, be it in dorms, frat/sorority houses, campus apartments, and so on. Even if the college institutions spend the money, they will not absorb the costs, but will probably just raise tuition to cover it, eh?

If someone claims to have cited studies on the costs involved and it was debated by college officials, including the budget and financial analysts for the college, can someone point me in that direction? It might be, after we see some numbers, and assuming students living on campus WILL be able to defend themselves while in their living-study-sleeping quarters, that state law might include amendment wording enabling the college to adopt gun storage requirements. Then if the campus resident (ie, student) wanted to keep the weapon in the living quarters, a storage device such as 'GunVault Mini' could be purchased by the student if it met the specs required by the college, or perhaps rented from the college. In the case of not being able to 'afford' to acquire safe storage, then the resident could NOT keep the weapon in the living quarters. Also, don't assume all dormitory residents have a car in which to store a weapon.

CleverNickname wrote:

Jason K wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

Considering it was Shannon Watts, I'm surprised she's made it this long....

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -assaults/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's an interesting thing I read today about Shannon Watts and campus CCW: http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/20 ... woman.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She's projecting her experience and inadequacies onto others. Just because she and or her "drunken college age daughter" can't handle it she thinks no one can.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... projection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Jason K wrote:

howdy wrote:I just heard the best reason why students should not be allowed to carry on campus. A leader of a college girls group said "if Colleges allowed Co-eds to carry guns then they would have to allow rapists to carry guns, and that would not help the co-eds"!!!

It might be the same story....but the same "group" said that allowing CC will also allow assailants to bring weapons on campus.....

....think about that for a moment.....

If breathing were not an involuntary action, some people would literally die of stupidity.

Chas.

I was thinking that same thing as I watched testimony during the Feb. 12th State Affairs meeting when a college employee said something like, ...sometimes she worked late and had to walk a distance to her car after dark..and didn't want people carrying guns 'cause she might be assaulted...as one of the reasons she opposed SB 11 Campus Carry. What? Hello! If the bill passed, then she could legally carry a defensive weapon to protect herself if she was assaulted!

From SCC: http://concealedcampus.org/2015/02/texa ... pus-carry/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Never having lived in a college dorm (always too poor) I wonder how these students now manage to secure their other personal items like their cash, car keys, etc.