Re: HB308
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:32 pm
N/A
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1. It's already to carry while intoxicated, and this bill does not seek to change that.Craven Moorehead wrote:This is just my opinion on the bar/51%. I've been to many bars, saloons,pubs, taverns, and clubs through my life. Not all but many I've seen people with issues after they have had a few drinks. People that normally wouldn't hurt a flea. But after they get a few drinks under their belts their personalities take a change for the worse. Anyone that goes into bars on a regular basis knows the type. And it happens to both genders. So I guess you can tell where my thoughts are on the subject. It's like an accident waiting to happen. I would leave that part of the current law alone. If I where a bar owner I would have a sign posted not allowing firearms regardless of the law. The liability for serving drunk drivers is bad enough. I wouldn't want to add drunk shooters to the mix. This is a common sense issue as I see it. IMHO I agree that this bill would move faster if that part of the current law was left in and I'm about as pro gun as you can get.
So....you're OK with keeping it illegal for those persons who don't drink and don't act in a criminal, assaultive manner to have an effective means of self-defense from those who DO act in a criminal, assaultive manner, whether drunk or not?Craven Moorehead wrote:This is just my opinion on the bar/51%. I've been to many bars, saloons,pubs, taverns, and clubs through my life. Not all but many I've seen people with issues after they have had a few drinks. People that normally wouldn't hurt a flea. But after they get a few drinks under their belts their personalities take a change for the worse. Anyone that goes into bars on a regular basis knows the type. And it happens to both genders. So I guess you can tell where my thoughts are on the subject. It's like an accident waiting to happen. I would leave that part of the current law alone. If I where a bar owner I would have a sign posted not allowing firearms regardless of the law. The liability for serving drunk drivers is bad enough. I wouldn't want to add drunk shooters to the mix. This is a common sense issue as I see it. IMHO I agree that this bill would move faster if that part of the current law was left in and I'm about as pro gun as you can get.
So bar entry to police and armed security guards as well?Craven Moorehead wrote:This is just my opinion on the bar/51%. I've been to many bars, saloons,pubs, taverns, and clubs through my life. Not all but many I've seen people with issues after they have had a few drinks. People that normally wouldn't hurt a flea. But after they get a few drinks under their belts their personalities take a change for the worse. Anyone that goes into bars on a regular basis knows the type. And it happens to both genders. So I guess you can tell where my thoughts are on the subject. It's like an accident waiting to happen. I would leave that part of the current law alone. If I where a bar owner I would have a sign posted not allowing firearms regardless of the law. The liability for serving drunk drivers is bad enough. I wouldn't want to add drunk shooters to the mix. This is a common sense issue as I see it. IMHO I agree that this bill would move faster if that part of the current law was left in and I'm about as pro gun as you can get.
It's true that guns and alcohol don't mix. And it's also true that some people have an alcohol-induced Mr Hyde on board. But neither of these truisms should be cause to bar the rest of us from carrying responsibly - even in places where more sales of on-premises consumption alcohol is sold more than anything else. Barring everyone from responsibly carrying in 51% locations is akin to outlawing firearms because somebody shoots up a school or movie theater. The prohibition punishes those of us who've never committed the wrong because of the bad acts of a very few (or in this case, the probable acts of an unknown number of bad actors).Craven Moorehead wrote:This is just my opinion on the bar/51%. I've been to many bars, saloons,pubs, taverns, and clubs through my life. Not all but many I've seen people with issues after they have had a few drinks. People that normally wouldn't hurt a flea. But after they get a few drinks under their belts their personalities take a change for the worse. Anyone that goes into bars on a regular basis knows the type. And it happens to both genders. So I guess you can tell where my thoughts are on the subject. It's like an accident waiting to happen. I would leave that part of the current law alone. If I where a bar owner I would have a sign posted not allowing firearms regardless of the law. The liability for serving drunk drivers is bad enough. I wouldn't want to add drunk shooters to the mix. This is a common sense issue as I see it. IMHO I agree that this bill would move faster if that part of the current law was left in and I'm about as pro gun as you can get.
My opinion, which is not based on anything but a gut feeling, is that this bill doesn't need more votes as much as it will need help being pushed along through the vacuum of political capital spent on OC and campus carry. I'm not complaining, as I will be glad to get OC and campus carry, but this is politics and things don't come without a cost.AJSully421 wrote:I seem to remember Charles making a statement that any time anything about 45.035 came up that the biggest question he got was about bars. It appears to be a problem for many.stash wrote:I wonder if this bill would have a better chance if bars were not in the mix?
I bet it would get us 10% more votes if the bars were still prohibited. Who knows, might pass just fine with them included. Try it with them this session. If it doesn't pass, try it without them next session.
Craven Moorehead wrote:Yes, there should be exceptions. That should be left to the owner of the establishment since you are servicing his bar equipment. Someone mentioned Comedy Clubs. I've been to a few and they are some of the worst for belligerent drunks. A scenario would be the comedian rags on one of the drunk obnoxious patrons for shouting out by making a joke about his mother. The drunk gets made and the rest is history.dedeye wrote:I agree Alcohol and guns do not mix. I however go into a lot of bars everyday to work on video game,jukeboxes, Atms,...etc.
Sometimes the right location can have 1000 dollars or more not counting what ever might be in the Atm. I'm working, not drinking.
I should be able to defend myself in a bar!
Why do you think they have bouncers? It's because they expect trouble on a regular basis. Have you ever seen a drunk patron take a swing at a bouncer. I have on a couple of occasions. My point which was missed by some is not all gun carrying folks are law abiding, or stable minded, responsible people when drinking. It's the law abiding and stable minded that will be sitting there enjoying their drink and get shot. Everything is diminished while under the influence including your aim. All of our criminal laws came to be because a few bad apples upset the cart. Blame the drunks not me.
What really frustrates me is there is plenty of data from other states with bar carry that show this isn't a problem. Every state that considers any sort of gun law seems to act as though they are the first and only ones to ever do so.mr1337 wrote:Absolutely, but you know lawmakers won't see it that way. They're going to think every 51% location (which is not just bars) will turn into O.K. Corral the day the legislation take effect.Aggie_engr wrote:I also feel like the whole bar thing is an unnecessary redundancy as its already against the law to be intoxicated while carrying.
I, however, would like to carry when I'm the DD, or if I'm going to a comedy or band show that's at a 51% location.
It's not illegal to drink and carry now nor will it be under HB308. It's only illegal to carry while intoxicated.mr1337 wrote:So Craven, what you're saying is people shouldn't drink and carry. Well that's still going to be illegal.
Absolutely. Great points.C-dub wrote:Bad things aren't always going to happen in any of the places that are off limits. Just like with Campus Carry, it could be going to and from our vehicles. Let the bouncers take care of a problem inside the bar. What about after the comedy show is over and you're walking to your car late at night? Same thing with a student going to their car after a late night class. If I can't carry in those places then I am disarmed outside of them when I come and go.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:It's not illegal to drink and carry now nor will it be under HB308. It's only illegal to carry while intoxicated.mr1337 wrote:So Craven, what you're saying is people shouldn't drink and carry. Well that's still going to be illegal.
Chas.
Driving with an open beer in your car is open container. If you are impaired or over .08% BAC, that is DWI. Drinking and driving is not always DWI if you are not impaired or over .08%.mr1337 wrote: Agreed, I was over-simplifying it for the sake of the discussion. Much in the sense that it's not illegal to drink and drive, it's just illegal to drive while intoxicated. (But drinking and driving is seen as being intoxicated while driving.)