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It's not much good against crooks but a cable lock through the action of a pump shotgun is a cheap way to help prevent accidents.

Shotgun = instant incapacitation!

roberts wrote:It's not much good against crooks but a cable lock through the action of a pump shotgun is a cheap way to help prevent accidents.

I use a cable lock on all of mine when they aren't in my control. I take it off of the shotty at night before bed in case I go for it rather than the .40 under my pillow.

-CT

fickman wrote:The DAO revolvers and DA/SA Sig are all kept well out of reach at all times - no way they can stack stuff high enough to reach them.

Do not underestimate how ingenious a couple of children can be, even at that age. If they want something bad enough, they'll find a way to get it.

dihappy wrote:If you got the money, do it.

QFT if you have the money do it. :) It's fun to have a toy.

LarryH wrote:

fickman wrote:The DAO revolvers and DA/SA Sig are all kept well out of reach at all times - no way they can stack stuff high enough to reach them.

Do not underestimate how ingenious a couple of children can be, even at that age. If they want something bad enough, they'll find a way to get it.

Thanks for the word of caution. . . I realize you have to give it since you don't know me personally and the extents I go to in order to guarantee that the kids are safe. I said earlier, I assume nothing and take nothing for granted.

FWIW, an ingenious kid can also open a safe - either by watching over your shoulder, sheer statistical luck, malfunction of the device, finding the key, etc. They could also take one off of your person if you fell asleep deeply enough.

With safety, I take no chances, but you can never guarantee 100%. What you're doing is taking a situation that has less than 1% chance of happening, combining it with a situation that has less than .001% chance of happening, adding another layer on top of it that has less than .000001% chance of happening, so and and so on until you're comfortable with the odds. Then, you add on the layer of being responsible to watch, oversee, instruct, teach, caution, etc.

The chances are calculated by looking at obscurity, complexity, difficulty, ability to perform a precise number of actions in sequence, etc. on one side combined with ability, desire, and an element of randomness on the other.

As Charles Heston said, if the gun isn't loaded (and I'll add - accessible), then it's not for home defense. I'll remind you that home invasions don't only happen when everybody's tucked away into bed for the night.

Even taking the advice of using a cable lock except at night (which doesn't help you if there is a daytime home invasion or other emergency), the following highly unlikely situation could occur:
*REDACTED FOR PRIVACY*

As she grows older, her abilities will increase, and this scenario will no longer be sufficient. As I said, in the next year I plan to get two pistol safes and am constantly on the lookout for a larger safe to hold long guns. As she gets older, we'll also start introducing her to the firearms and teaching her safety, avoidance, and how to get an adult if she finds one without touching it.

So - anyway - I think long and hard about gun safety, and I don't take it lightly. This is just to put your minds at ease as I think my first statement might have come across as either cavalier or given the impression that I underestimate her abilities. The nice thing is that with this community - we all learn from each other and borrow ideas from others when we find something that works.

fickman wrote:As Charles Heston said, if the gun isn't loaded (and I'll add - accessible), then it's not for home defense.

Amen, I believe that 100%. If you have to go through 5 layers of security, then you're in trouble when the time comes that you need it. You only have seconds to be ready to protect yourself and your family. I ALWAYS have a firearm that is quickly accessible.

fickman wrote:I'll remind you that home invasions don't only happen when everybody's tucked away into bed for the night.

Even taking the advice of using a cable lock except at night (which doesn't help you if there is a daytime home invasion or other emergency)...

I usually only have one firearm at a time ready for protection, (sometimes 2) but I always have at least one. I carry at home 100% of the time. Even if my rifle, shotguns and spare sidearm have a cable lock, then one sidearm does not and is on me and ready to go. I didn't mean to insinuate that all of my firearms were locked except at night. Just any firearm that is not actively in my control at the time.

Cutter wrote:I usually only have one firearm at a time ready for protection, (sometimes 2) but I always have at least one. I carry at home 100% of the time. Even if my rifle, shotguns and spare sidearm have a cable lock, then one sidearm does not and is on me and ready to go. I didn't mean to insinuate that all of my firearms were locked except at night. Just any firearm that is not actively in my control at the time.

Well, until I get the gun safes, I'm considering adopting your cable lock procedure. It'll require more active management of the firearms on a daily basis, but as the kids get older, it's wise to do.

fickman wrote:

Cutter wrote:I usually only have one firearm at a time ready for protection, (sometimes 2) but I always have at least one. I carry at home 100% of the time. Even if my rifle, shotguns and spare sidearm have a cable lock, then one sidearm does not and is on me and ready to go. I didn't mean to insinuate that all of my firearms were locked except at night. Just any firearm that is not actively in my control at the time.

Well, until I get the gun safes, I'm considering adopting your cable lock procedure. It'll require more active management of the firearms on a daily basis, but as the kids get older, it's wise to do.

I forgot to say that I would LOVE to have one of those nice gun safes, but they are very expensive. Certainly expensive when compared to a cable lock running through the action of the gun. You can get a decent cable lock for $6 - $7 and it does the trick. It's much easier to come up with $7 X the [number of your firearms] than it is to come up with the cash for the safe. If money were not an issue, I'd have a big ol' gun safe sitting in my bedroom right now. It would be nice, not just for guns, but for important papers, cash, jewelry and anything of value and would protect a lot of that stuff in case of fire.

Maybe Santa will load one of those in his sleigh next year.

fickman wrote:FWIW, an ingenious kid can also open a safe - either by watching over your shoulder,

I had a cowoker whose 6-year-old could "read" any password or PIN as it was entered. They tested him against a 130WPM typist and he got an 8-character password on the second try.

Cutter wrote:Even if my rifle, shotguns and spare sidearm have a cable lock, then one sidearm does not and is on me and ready to go.

Take a look at the LJ3 here: http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2323.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (pistol version LJ1 http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2322.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) You can get a pistol and a shotgun one keyed alike so you just need one key to put the pistol away and get the shotgun out at bedtime, or vice versa in the morning. It looks like it would be a lot less of a pain to get on and off, and less likely to scuff the gun than a cable lock.

Note, however, that the shotgun version, as far as I know, only works for right-side-eject guns, since it has a piece that enters the ejection port to fully disable the gun. This also requires that the chamber be left open, but it should be a simple matter to situate it so that you just unlock it and leave the gun in unless it's needed.

KD5NRH wrote:

Cutter wrote:Even if my rifle, shotguns and spare sidearm have a cable lock, then one sidearm does not and is on me and ready to go.

Take a look at the LJ3 here: http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2323.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (pistol version LJ1 http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2322.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) You can get a pistol and a shotgun one keyed alike so you just need one key to put the pistol away and get the shotgun out at bedtime, or vice versa in the morning. It looks like it would be a lot less of a pain to get on and off, and less likely to scuff the gun than a cable lock.

Note, however, that the shotgun version, as far as I know, only works for right-side-eject guns, since it has a piece that enters the ejection port to fully disable the gun. This also requires that the chamber be left open, but it should be a simple matter to situate it so that you just unlock it and leave the gun in unless it's needed.

Those are cool, and I like the idea of one key. Not too expensive either.

Thanks for forwarding those links, I will probably pick up some of those.

Well, after reading all 7 pages of this thread, I've changed my mind about a dozen times .

poppo wrote:Well, after reading all 7 pages of this thread, I've changed my mind about a dozen times .

Glad that we could clear that up for you, it's just another service that we provide. No need to send cash, this one is on the house.

poppo wrote:Well, after reading all 7 pages of this thread, I've changed my mind about a dozen times .

lol!

I've talked myself out of and into things just participating in it.