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Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:57 pm**

I'm with lsw380

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:01 pm**

Lock the thread. Let's move on.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:10 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote:You seem to be the type to be a responsible dog owner Frazzled so I have a question for you. In the situation the original poster mentioned, would you have tried to get your dog to stop eating that puppy?

Ok. In this fact pattern I am the owner of the leashed dog (note I say leashed dog, I didn’t see what type of dog the unleashed puppy was-big difference between a poodle and a St. Bernard puppy) correct?

You betcha. As I stated earlier, I did own a mixed breed pit bull once, and a large one-over 105 lbs (never trust a cute girl who sees a puppy at the grocery and tells you it’s a Labrador puppy…). I’ve been in that situation. However I raised the dog properly and would not let that happen. The only time I didn’t was because it was a Rottweiler trying to attack ME, and he bowled it over like a tank. But I still pulled him off after that.
The owners, as described, sound like complete jerk.
But an unleashed dog coming at a leashed dog is a dangerous thing.

EDIT: hey we're being nice here. No need to lock.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:19 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote:
arod757 wrote:
But this time, there was a bowl of antifreeze on the patio.
I was with you 'til that point. I would never hurt another animal just because its owner is an idiot. No matter how much damage the animal has done to property, the dog can always be trained to stop its destructive behavior. It's not the dog's fault his owner is too lazy or ignorant to train him.
Yeah...I'm not sure I could do this either. I could blast a dog to stop an immediate threat, but once the threat was over, I would not see the point in it. I would probably just keep calling animal control on them until they got the message.

I know I couldn't do it. Heck, I recently spent $250 to catch a (very young) feral kitten, have it spayed, get all of it shots and get it calmed down enough so I could find it a good home (which I did - the owners still send me pictures occasionally). I told the tenant (who put out the antifreeze) that the neighbor was probably going to blame me and retaliate somehow. Tenants really don't like their landlord coming around for any reason and the issue with the dog was causing me to be over there much more than the twice yearly inspections specified in the rental agreement. I think she did it more to keep me from having to come over as much as to get rid of the dog.

I felt bad for the dog. This was the third dog (all Rottweilers) this guy had had over several years. When they were in the puppy stage and cute, they played with the dog. When it got older, it was left out in the yard, at times on a chain. I hate to see that. One of my former tenants told me that once, when one of the previous dogs was chained to one of the patio cover support posts, it took off and jerked the post off of the patio. As the post came off of the patio and before it hit the ground six inches lower, the chain loop came loose and the dog ran up to the fence and scared the crap out of him. They (my tenants) eventually moved out, primarily because of the dog. Another time, when my rental property was in-between tenants, I was mowing the back yard. At this time, another previous dog (or could have been the same one who pulled the post off the patio) was in the very late puppy stage and not at all aggressive. I had been working at the house for about three days getting it ready and never saw a water bowl in the back yard. I set a 5 gallon bucket over the fence and filled it with water. The poor dog lapped water for what seemed like 30 minutes. When the guy got home, he dumped the bucket out and threw it back over the fence. The he did give the dog some dry food (just dumped it on the concrete patio floor) and gave it some water (in an old cooking pot). Some of the hard feelings go back several years (before any real issues with his dogs began) to when I mentioned to him that he wasn't supposed to park his horse trailer in his driveway for months at a time. Turns out that he got a citation from the city not long after that (I did not turn him in but he thought I did). To make it worse, the city told him that he couldn't park it in his driveway rather than explaining that it couldn't be in front of the building line. So he put down brick pavers beside his driveway (but in front of the building line)and parked it there only to be cited again for parking it in front of the building line. Again, I feel pretty sure he thought I turned him in and now the city was picking on him. Not long after my tenant did the antifreeze number on his dog, the mortgage company foreclosed on the house and he moved out. I ran into him about a year later at a Northern store and he acted like nothing had ever happened.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:28 pm**

This kind,

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:38 pm**

I applaud the initiator of this thread for his heroic efforts to save his puppy at his own risk. The fact that he was armed but did not go to extremes is commendable. The fault for cause of the incident notwithstanding; the actions taken DURING the incident were appropriate, IMHO.

As a CHL holder and a person who has had well behaved and friendly pit bull family members for the past 30 years, I would love to see how some folks would react to this story if the breed of the dog involved were never mentioned.

Would anyone change their mind about the whole scenario? Just wondering how much some of us have bought into the media hype over the breed.

Meanwhile, my current Pit Bull, my American Mastiff, and my mutt all stay within a yard that has a 180' long, three foot high stone wall topped by a six foot privacy fence. That keeps them safe from numb skull humans and other animals.

When I walk them they are on a leash. I've had incidents where off leash dogs charged my dog. I was well aware in advance in each case because I was very cognizant of my surroundings and I placed myself between the aggressor and my dog and ran the naughty canine off.

Of course, It helps that I'm a former K9 officer whith a knack for intimidating charging dogs. I got accustomed to being bitten by dogs during training as an agitator for other departments (man, those Garland P.D. and Rowlett shepherds bit hard, even through a bite suit!).

My own dog bit me once when he decided it was unreasonable for me to force him out of a perfectly good hovering helicopter on a rope harness.

A bite is no big deal to me any more (I'd change my mind about that real quick if a pack came after me and the .45 would come out until the number of active teeth was sufficiently reduced).

Walking a dog is always a risk, because dogs are animals and don't have a sense of right and wrong. They have instinct for survival, pleasure, territory defense, and predation. They live in the moment and have no concept of past or future, therefore, they are NEVER to blame. It is ALWAYS human fault when two pets tangle.

Anyone who walks their dog in public should take a little time to study and understand the basics of dog psychology. Read Paul Loeb's book "Smarter than You Think" or watch a few episodes of the dog whisperer with Cesar Millan. Both those guys know what they are talking about, and most of the other non-law enforcement dog handlers and trainers are full of nonsense.

The problem with certain people who chose particularly powerful dog breeds is they often get the animal for protection and have no consideration for the fact that they should be protectors of their pet as well. It's a two-way street.

I would like to add that if you ask two different police officers for a legal opinion on anything that is not 100% cut and dried, you are as likely to get two different answers as you would asking any civilian. A prosecuting attorney is the best place to get a more accurate opinion on what is and isn't legal. And a defense attorney is a good place to go when you do something that you didn't ask a proscecuting attorney about beforehand

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:46 pm**

frazzled wrote:
03Lightningrocks wrote:You seem to be the type to be a responsible dog owner Frazzled so I have a question for you. In the situation the original poster mentioned, would you have tried to get your dog to stop eating that puppy?
Ok. In this fact pattern I am the owner of the leashed dog (note I say leashed dog, I didn’t see what type of dog the unleashed puppy was-big difference between a poodle and a St. Bernard puppy) correct?

Honestly...the size of the puppy wouldn't matter to me.I really don't know if my point is getting across or not. I would not shoot the leashed dog out of revenge. Heck...I like dogs. ...I would only shoot it if the owner were not making an attempt to stop the mauling.

You betcha. As I stated earlier, I did own a mixed breed pit bull once, and a large one-over 105 lbs (never trust a cute girl who sees a puppy at the grocery and tells you it’s a Labrador puppy…). I’ve been in that situation. However I raised the dog properly and would not let that happen. The only time I didn’t was because it was a Rottweiler trying to attack ME, and he bowled it over like a tank. But I still pulled him off after that.
The owners, as described, sound like complete jerk.
But an unleashed dog coming at a leashed dog is a dangerous thing.

In this case...I would thank you for the effort to save my rude little puppy and apologize for causing the problem in the first place. I may have misunderstood the OP but I took it that the guy with the Pit Bull was not doing anything to stop the madness. Even after the Pit bull was eating the old man...LOL. If this was the case, I am sorry, but I would have to use any means at my disposal to stop the situation from getting worse. I wouldn't just sit there and watch the pit make a happy meal out of my dog and father.
By the by....my kids are all grown up and I really would like to get a Pit Bull but my home owners insurance carrier is acting like It might be a problem. I am checking into Rotty pups also. Heck...I like big strong dogs. But I would not let my dog eat someone elses either. I would have been knocking the bejesus outta my dog to get him to let go of that puppy snack.

EDIT: hey we're being nice here. No need to lock.
Yeah....me too.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:49 pm**

tfrazier wrote:I applaud the initiator of this thread for his heroic efforts to save his puppy at his own risk. The fact that he was armed but did not go to extremes is commendable. The fault for cause of the incident notwithstanding; the actions taken DURING the incident were appropriate, IMHO.

As a CHL holder and a person who has had well behaved and friendly pit bull family members for the past 30 years, I would love to see how some folks would react to this story if the breed of the dog involved were never mentioned.

Would anyone change their mind about the whole scenario? Just wondering how much some of us have bought into the media hype over the breed.

Meanwhile, my current Pit Bull, my American Mastiff, and my mutt all stay within a yard that has a 180' long, three foot high stone wall topped by a six foot privacy fence. That keeps them safe from numb skull humans and other animals.

When I walk them they are on a leash. I've had incidents where off leash dogs charged my dog. I was well aware in advance in each case because I was very cognizant of my surroundings and I placed myself between the aggressor and my dog and ran the naughty canine off.

Of course, It helps that I'm a former K9 officer whith a knack for intimidating charging dogs. I got accustomed to being bitten by dogs during training as an agitator for other departments (man, those Garland P.D. and Rowlett shepherds bit hard, even through a bite suit!).

My own dog bit me once when he decided it was unreasonable for me to force him out of a perfectly good hovering helicopter on a rope harness.

A bite is no big deal to me any more (I'd change my mind about that real quick if a pack came after me and the .45 would come out until the number of active teeth was sufficiently reduced).

Walking a dog is always a risk, because dogs are animals and don't have a sense of right and wrong. They have instinct for survival, pleasure, territory defense, and predation. They live in the moment and have no concept of past or future, therefore, they are NEVER to blame. It is ALWAYS human fault when two pets tangle.

Anyone who walks their dog in public should take a little time to study and understand the basics of dog psychology. Read Paul Loeb's book "Smarter than You Think" or watch a few episodes of the dog whisperer with Cesar Millan. Both those guys know what they are talking about, and most of the other non-law enforcement dog handlers and trainers are full of nonsense.

The problem with certain people who chose particularly powerful dog breeds is they often get the animal for protection and have no consideration for the fact that they should be protectors of their pet as well. It's a two-way street.

I would like to add that if you ask two different police officers for a legal opinion on anything that is not 100% cut and dried, you are as likely to get two different answers as you would asking any civilian. A prosecuting attorney is the best place to get a more accurate opinion on what is and isn't legal. And a defense attorney is a good place to go when you do something that you didn't ask a proscecuting attorney about beforehand

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:04 pm**

This is one of the reasons that I don't take my miniature schnauzer in the front yard too often. He has a rather trashy mouth, seems to think he's a rottweiler, and has gotten himself into a predicament because of this in the past.

OP, as the owner of a little guy, I understand your desire to do everything you could to save him. I think you were wise to remain rational throughout this time. My only advice for the future would be to keep your dog on a leash so that you have a greater legal leg to stand on in the event that this happens again.

Posted: **Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:49 pm**

As I posted earlier, I have an American Staffordshire Terrier http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm "The American Staffordshire Terrier, are generally of larger bone structure, head size and weight then their cousins the American Pit Bull Terrier." Most people's opinion of these breeds is negative. It is NOT the dogs fault. And yes, you should be worried about letting your children or pets approach one without the owner's consent.

Case - we are visiting my sister in law in Austin (we are San Antonio). She lives in an apartment complex with dog walk/nature area. Armed with HEB bags (great glove/poop holder), Harley (already named) and I "head for the woods". He is sniffing and going about his business when a "yappy dog" comes a calling fast!!!! I pull the rope taught about the time the little thing jumped into Harley's mouth and began this weird dance. I called Harley off, he dropped the puppy. The owner/college chick that finally showed up (she let the dog out the door becuase it "knew where to go..." I was almost back to apartment, already called the wife who was getting the truck. WE took the dog to the vet. WE paid the $975 to make it better. Why? Because she wouldn't have.

They are best buds now. Harley is 5 now and Sheila is 2 yr. They have been best of frineds for about 1 1/2 years now. And, when in Austin, both are on a leash when outside.

Doug

Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:54 am**

My own dog bit me once when he decided it was unreasonable for me to force him out of a perfectly good hovering helicopter on a rope harness.

I think that would be a common reaction from most people as well, including me. "You want me to do what?" CHOMP!

Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:07 am**

Classic French style... looks mighty good.

Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:54 am**

frazzled wrote:
My own dog bit me once when he decided it was unreasonable for me to force him out of a perfectly good hovering helicopter on a rope harness.
I think that would be a common reaction from most people as well, including me. "You want me to do what?" CHOMP!

Yeah, smart dog. There is no reason to jump out of a perfectly good aircraft.

On the dog suit, my sister used to own a Great Dane who had supposedly been trained of personal protection. She had recently gotten divorced and she and my niece had moved into a house across the street from my parents. I borrowed one of the suits from our department and called my sister to advise her I was going to come into the house unannounced with the hood on and see what he would do. Needless to say, he had been well trained and stopped me about half-way in the door, mouth on my neck. He was not biting, but all 175 lbs was on me (I weighed about 140 at that time) and I was pinned to the ground. When I called his name, he backed off a little and I could peek out from under the hood. He saw me and immediately backed on down with his tail wagging. My sister and I both felt a lot more comfortable with her living alone after that!

Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:15 am**

All other attributes aside, large dogs require large shovels.

Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:30 am**

Keith B wrote:...stopped me about half-way in the door, mouth on my neck. He was not biting, but all 175 lbs was on me (I weighed about 140 at that time) and I was pinned to the ground. When I called his name, he backed off a little and I could peek out from under the hood. He saw me and immediately backed on down with his tail wagging. My sister and I both felt a lot more comfortable with her living alone after that!

Very dangerous, especially with a dog that large if he gets your neck. The suits are great for stopping puncture wounds, but don't do a lot to eliminate the pressure that could break bones. You could have ended up with a broken neck. I've never seen a bite suit with a collar, so I'm not sure how your neck was covered, but it's been a good 20 years since I've worn one.

Nobody else should ever try this even if they have access to a $2,500 bite suit unless they have some good training and experience as an agitator, and you should always have an experienced handler present when doing bite work.

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