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Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:11 pm
by gus
Good witness all the way unless the lady was being harmed in some way...
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:39 pm
by Gunner21
WildBill wrote:Mr.ViperBoa wrote:What would you have done if you would have been able to do something about it? Just curious.
Call 911 and give a description of the persons and vehicles and watch from a safe place. Under the circumstances that you described, I wouldn't intervene.
I can't stress this enough. You are not Law Enforcement. Our CHL is there for personal protection. Call 911 file a witness report and move on.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:33 am
by Mr.ViperBoa
Gunner21 wrote:WildBill wrote:Mr.ViperBoa wrote:What would you have done if you would have been able to do something about it? Just curious.
Call 911 and give a description of the persons and vehicles and watch from a safe place. Under the circumstances that you described, I wouldn't intervene.
I can't stress this enough. You are not Law Enforcement. Our CHL is there for personal protection. Call 911 file a witness report and move on.
I will probably be unliked for saying this but o well. Stand by and do nothing while the bad guy gets away and then move on. That just doesn't set well with me. Just because it doesn't say "Law Enforcement" anywhere on my shirt. I guess we are supposed to just "move on". Well if there was more enforcing going on then we wouldn't have to worry about it. I think that is what is wrong with our world today. To many people doing nothing and waiting for some one else to do something. While innocent people are the ones who pay the price of either being killed, beaten, or just having what belongs to them taken away from them. If I had been 1 minute later walking to my car and been where I could have done something about it, I don't think I would have just "moved on" as you put it. I would have made sure he would have thought twice about doing it again. Like I said, its just what I would have done. Even if you beat the snot out of the guy for being a punk, you would probably go to jail for violating the scumbags rights when the "law enforcement" shows up. So either way you lose. Thats just my opinion and no disrespect to any police out there. I have spent enough time working police and most of my friends are police and they know how I feel as well. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but it probably will be.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:48 pm
by Running Arrow Bill
A purse snatcher is not a justifiable reason for using deadly force and/or getting yourself hurt or shot...
There a lot of heros in ICU's and/or 6 feet in ground...
JMO
P.S.: If you want to be a hero, enroll in the Police Academy and get on the LEO force.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:08 pm
by Oldgringo
Mr.ViperBoa wrote:Gunner21 wrote:WildBill wrote:Mr.ViperBoa wrote:What would you have done if you would have been able to do something about it? Just curious.
Call 911 and give a description of the persons and vehicles and watch from a safe place. Under the circumstances that you described, I wouldn't intervene.
I can't stress this enough. You are not Law Enforcement. Our CHL is there for personal protection. Call 911 file a witness report and move on.
I will probably be unliked for saying this but o well. Stand by and do nothing while the bad guy gets away and then move on. That just doesn't set well with me. Just because it doesn't say "Law Enforcement" anywhere on my shirt. I guess we are supposed to just "move on". Well if there was more enforcing going on then we wouldn't have to worry about it. I think that is what is wrong with our world today. To many people doing nothing and waiting for some one else to do something. While innocent people are the ones who pay the price of either being killed, beaten, or just having what belongs to them taken away from them. If I had been 1 minute later walking to my car and been where I could have done something about it, I don't think I would have just "moved on" as you put it. I would have made sure he would have thought twice about doing it again. Like I said, its just what I would have done. Even if you beat the snot out of the guy for being a punk, you would probably go to jail for violating the scumbags rights when the "law enforcement" shows up. So either way you lose. Thats just my opinion and no disrespect to any police out there. I have spent enough time working police and most of my friends are police and they know how I feel as well. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but it probably will be.
Who/where is the bad guy? The male in this scenario could very well be the husband/brother/father of the female who was demanding that his property, taken by the female, be returned. That property could turn out to be his
"eargesplitten loudenboomer" which is now aimed at your face as in
. Now then, you are the bad guy and you may very well also be the dead guy who butted in on a domestic disagreement that did not require your aggressive and threatening interference.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:41 pm
by Griz44
A purse snatcher is not a justifiable reason for using deadly force and/or getting yourself hurt or shot...
Purse snatching off the person carrying it is robbery. Robbery is a felony. If it is forcefully taken, it may also be aggravated robbery. Robbery either way qualifies as a deadly force situation.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:06 pm
by gemini
Mr.ViperBoa wrote:Gunner21 wrote:WildBill wrote:Mr.ViperBoa wrote:What would you have done if you would have been able to do something about it? Just curious.
Call 911 and give a description of the persons and vehicles and watch from a safe place. Under the circumstances that you described, I wouldn't intervene.
I can't stress this enough. You are not Law Enforcement. Our CHL is there for personal protection. Call 911 file a witness report and move on.
I will probably be unliked for saying this but o well. Stand by and do nothing while the bad guy gets away and then move on. That just doesn't set well with me. Just because it doesn't say "Law Enforcement" anywhere on my shirt. I guess we are supposed to just "move on". Well if there was more enforcing going on then we wouldn't have to worry about it. I think that is what is wrong with our world today. To many people doing nothing and waiting for some one else to do something. While innocent people are the ones who pay the price of either being killed, beaten, or just having what belongs to them taken away from them. If I had been 1 minute later walking to my car and been where I could have done something about it, I don't think I would have just "moved on" as you put it. I would have made sure he would have thought twice about doing it again. Like I said, its just what I would have done. Even if you beat the snot out of the guy for being a punk, you would probably go to jail for violating the scumbags rights when the "law enforcement" shows up. So either way you lose. Thats just my opinion and no disrespect to any police out there. I have spent enough time working police and most of my friends are police and they know how I feel as well. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but it probably will be.
Join the club. Some are wired to react, some are not. I personally hope that if my wife, daughter or sister needed help, someone like you
might be there to assist them.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:41 pm
by johnson0317
Griz44 wrote:A purse snatcher is not a justifiable reason for using deadly force and/or getting yourself hurt or shot...
Purse snatching off the person carrying it is robbery. Robbery is a felony. If it is forcefully taken, it may also be aggravated robbery. Robbery either way qualifies as a deadly force situation.
Yeah, I see your point. However, if the robbery is basically over, and no one is in danger of losing their life, do you really want to go ahead and change that balance by blowing the BG out of his shoes, just because you can?
I don't think the worst part of it would be pulling the trigger. I think the worst part would be the doubt, the anguish, the regret, the dreams that replay it time after time. Knowing that someones husband/father/son won't be home tonight because I had the authority of force, even though it may not have been needed.
Obviously every scenario will play out differently. If we are not willing to pull our weapon, and use it, when the proper time comes, we need to just leave it at home. I pray that each one of us has done the soul-searching that needs to be done ahead of time. Work through your "unlock" or "condition" codes as the process unwraps so that you can make the right decision in the split 1/100 of a second. It will be bad no matter what, but worse if we can not be sure we did the right thing.
Most of all, I pray we never have to go to the gravest extreme.
RJ
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:14 pm
by Shoot Straight
johnson0317 wrote:Griz44 wrote:Purse snatching off the person carrying it is robbery. Robbery is a felony. If it is forcefully taken, it may also be aggravated robbery. Robbery either way qualifies as a deadly force situation.
Yeah, I see your point. However, if the robbery is basically over, and no one is in danger of losing their life, do you really want to go ahead and change that balance by blowing the BG out of his shoes, just because you can?
Also, in this case, as reported by the OP, it sounds like the purse was taken from the shopping cart while the woman was loading groceries into her car and not watching the purse.
I understand sometimes people feel a moral obligation to act, even if that action is not required by law, and may even be prohibited by law. In the latter case, it's especially important to know what the law says.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:21 pm
by Aggiedad
I just read all 6-7 pages of this thread ... I come down somewhere in the middle between "just be a good witness" and "going after the purse snatcher. I might be tempted to follow the purse snatcher while dialing 911 but to actually confront the guy? No way. If things went south and I had to defend myself with deadly force, an aggressive DA could easily say I went looking for trouble ... Not worth potentially losing everything I have over a purse snatching that was not an aggrevated assault. Would I want someone to come to the aid of MY wife or daughter? YOU BET! But would I want them to risk his/her life over a few bucks, credit card, and ID? I don't think so.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:10 pm
by goose
Aggiedad wrote:Not worth potentially losing everything I have over a purse snatching that was not an aggrevated assault. Would I want someone to come to the aid of MY wife or daughter? YOU BET! But would I want them to risk his/her life over a few bucks, credit card, and ID? I don't think so.
I land very close to this. To me there is a vast middle ground where I can intervene to make sure that the daughter/sister/wife is safe without pursuing, chasing or otherwise interacting with the bad guy. If my wife/sister/daughter were ever in this situation at Wal-Mart that is all I would ever ask of any of you. Letting the bad guy get away in no way implies that the only other option is to "stand by and do nothing."
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:30 pm
by WildBill
goose wrote:Letting the bad guy get away in no way implies that the only other option is to "stand by and do nothing."
Well said Goose.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:21 pm
by drjoker
HotLeadSolutions wrote:austinrealtor wrote:Yall are focusing on details of theft vs. robbery and missing the more important point that the crime had ALREADY happened. There was no longer imminent danger to OP or the purse snatch victim and using deadly force to recover property on behalf of third person in this case is a very slippery slope.
Think of the situation like this: would you intervene if you were NOT carrying? Because unless the criminal commits additional crimes (I.e. you block the purse thief's exit and he escalates, pulling a knife on you) then you're most likely not justified to draw your weapon on him in this case.
Like AR said, you are focusing on the wrong issue. I did not say I would immediately draw down on the guy. I said I would pursue and try to help. As far as having the "Right to Pursue" you do not have to be a LEO to pursue and help, the law says:
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or
any other person, may, without a warrant,
arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence
or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony
or as an offense against the public peace.
That law seems pretty broad. I would say that purse snatching would fall under that category (offense against the public peace) or even a felony if the purse was one of the $600.00 to $1000.00 varieties. Not real sure I would even want to make a citizens arrest, I would be happy to just beat the snot out of the guy, roll the dice and see what happens legally. What is he going to say? "Hi, 911?? I stole a ladies purse, and this guy chased me down...beat my butt and now I need the police..." I don't see that call going well.
We all have to make our own decisions. I am aware of the consequences I may face. Today he is snatching purses, tomorrow he will be holding up people at gun point in some parking lot somewhere. I would rather stop it now before the next victim is my wife. I just can't sit by and watch things like that happen. It is not in my wiring. The only thing that has to happen for evil to prosper, is for good people to do nothing.
Living in condition yellow means that you always know where the
anonymous exits are. Make it a habit to scan for cameras (ATMs, traffic, etc). Just because you carry a gun doesn't mean you have to use it to solve every problem that comes your way. That's a little melodramatic, don't you think? You can help others, but just be anonymous and discreet about it. One time, I saw an elderly woman walk out of Wal-Mart and two young guys with hoodies trailed behind her. I yelled, "Hey, lady, you need some help with your bags?" The two young guys turned around and left. In case you have to use force, as long as you've done nothing wrong and just want to avoid a frivolous lawsuit, you can leave discreetly.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:44 am
by kjolly
Is her purse worth your life and freedom or the death of the perpertator? Get description, and license number if they go to a car. Call 911. The laws under which you carry a weapon have very strict limitations. You are not a LEO. Even if the police caught this person he would quickly be back on the street. Risking your or anyone elses life in this scene are not worth it.
Re: Purse snatch at Wal-Mart. What would you have done?
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:55 am
by Purplehood
johnson0317 wrote: If we are not willing to pull our weapon, and use it, when the proper time comes, we need to just leave it at home.
I do not believe in the logical fallacy of the "if/then" argument. Nothing is ever cut and dry.